Yeah, it's me again , yeah i know what does he want this time but anyway two questions , 1st question is for Roger , i found Roger's 360 degree guide test interesting for the stripper and tried it.

I found that the line did make contact with the entire inner edge of the stripper when reeling in line with tension however, when i moved the guide a foot or two in either direction it also made contact with the entire inner edge of the stripper . Am i doing something wrong ?




Second question , is it worthwhile to test guide setups with a heavier line than you will most likely use since problems will be easier to detect, and to follow up after testing the K guides in a variety of configurations the test casting seems to be indistinguishable , the rod feels no different either which is somewhat surprising to me . Surprised by how noisy the guides are regardless of orientation .

I have no idea how anybody could tell a difference in moving a guide a few inches in either direction , i can't tell a difference when moving guides up to 6 inches and casting distance ( Although impressive) is nearly identical.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2017 11:52PM by herb canter.

Generally, on a spinning rod, I only want the line touching the outer the edge (away from the rod) of the ring. Almost a single point of contact.

............

Are you meaning when reeling in the line in slowly under tension or do you mean stringing a taught line, (With the rod upside down ) with spool removed and spool axle extended to it's furthest position and having a taught line attached to the end of spool axle to the top of the choker guide ?

Goal being the taught line lightly touching the top of each reduction guide ring (With rod/reel upside down) with the line connected to the spool axle on one end and top of the choker on the other.

I haven't tested a layout yet where you would follow a train like 30,25,20,16,12 8 8 8 8 which would likely make a reduction train that does fit the table edge or taught line test , instead i went with recommendations of 30,25,16 , 8 8 8 8 etc... any opinion on testing with a heavier line or is that just over thinking it , in case you haven't noticed i tend to over think things.

The line path will show you where and what sizes the guides should be. Trying to force the line path into a set of pre-determined guide sizes isn't really the way to go. The guides should be sized so that the line touches the inside of the ring furthest from the rod blank. This allows for the smallest guides that will do what needs to be done. When retrieving, the line should only touch that same edge on the inside of the butt guide. If it revolves all the way around the inside of the ring, you most likely have an overly large guide. The idea is to get the line under control quickly, not to let it billow out and around.

...................

The guides should be sized so that the line touches the inside of the ring furthest from the rod blank. When retrieving, the line should only touch that same edge on the inside of the butt guide.


The stripper i assume , so it's better for the line to NOT follow a complete circle inside the guide only to briefly touch the bottom edge do i have it right ?

That's how I do it. To have the line follow a complete circle you'll need an unusually large guide - much larger than what is actually required.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

...........

Maybe i'm too caught up in having the line touch the bottom of each reduction guide when the rod is upside down and using a taught line like a straightedge . The larger and higher guide is the only guide that allows that to be accomplished . The next size guide down and i need to push it even further out to accomplish this which makes 70% of the rod length unsupported .

I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish. Why have the rod upside down when testing? Its a spinning rod. Look for the line touching the bottom of guides in the rod's normal fishing position which means on the bottom of the rod, thus the bottom of the guide is the part closest to the ground. You are making this much harder than it needs to be.
Norm

i do what Tom is doing only more so..i only use 2# or 4# fire line and only the butt guide and then running guides no transition guides..i try to get the first runner (choke) as close to reel as possible with the butt guide deflecting the line to half the angle formed between choke and reel..it,s like having two choke guides, each doing half the job..your creating a poor man,s turbo guide system.lol..it casts a country mile.

I have to admit I'm confused, and concede I'll probably not get it even with further attempts. I only want to point out that with 2 and 4 pound test fireline, almost any reasonable guide sizing and arranging setup will cast a country mile.

ok..two country miles..lol.

Norman , you DO NOT have the rod upside down when testing you strap the rod in the upside down position with the reel attached when laying out the guides for the REDUCTION train to check their HEIGHT . You remove the spool and crank the reel handle until the axle is extended as far as it will go , you then attach a thin taught line from the axle end and tie it off to your preset choker based on the 27 X method .


The tight line gives the perfect angle for laying out your reduction guide train as far as achieving the perfect height leading into the choker. Why is this so difficult to understand , googling concept guide layout with Lou Caruso shows it up close. My issue from the beginning as described in my previous post is i cannot get the heights correct for the reduction train .


(I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish)


I'm trying to accomplish a reduction train which gives me the proper height , that has been the issue and continues to be the issue.

Michael Danek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to admit I'm confused, and concede I'll
> probably not get it even with further attempts.
> I only want to point out that with 2 and 4 pound
> test fireline, almost any reasonable guide sizing
> and arranging setup will cast a country mile.



Thanks Mike , yeah 2 to 4 pound line is even a bit too light for me , this is a 12 foot STIFF surf spinning rod . I asked whether people test guide setups with heavier line which makes sense to me since if you can get a smooth casting setup with heavier line lighter line will really be amazing but nobody has answered the question.

Double post



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2017 03:34PM by herb canter.

oops, my mistake..i didn,t see anything about surf rods til now..the guide sizes you gave could have been for an ultra light rod not too many years ago.lol.

herb canter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Norman , you DO NOT have the rod upside down when
> testing you strap the rod in the upside down
> position with the reel attached when laying out
> the guides for the REDUCTION train to check their
> HEIGHT . You remove the spool and crank the reel
> handle until the axle is extended as far as it
> will go , you then attach a thin taught line from
> the axle end and tie it off to your preset choker
> based on the 27 X method .
>
>
> The tight line gives the perfect angle for laying
> out your reduction guide train as far as achieving
> the perfect height leading into the choker. Why is
> this so difficult to understand , googling concept
> guide layout with Lou Caruso shows it up close.
> My issue from the beginning as described in my
> previous post is i cannot get the heights correct
> for the reduction train .
>
>
> (I have no idea what you are trying to
> accomplish)
>
>
> I'm trying to accomplish a reduction train which
> gives me the proper height , that has been the
> issue and continues to be the issue.

That seems to be an awful lot of work for what you're trying to do. A straight edge, such as the edge of a table or a yardstick is generally enough to provide the straight path to set the reduction guides by.

.........

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> herb canter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Norman , you DO NOT have the rod upside down
> when
> > testing you strap the rod in the upside down
> > position with the reel attached when laying out
> > the guides for the REDUCTION train to check
> their
> > HEIGHT . You remove the spool and crank the
> reel
> > handle until the axle is extended as far as it
> > will go , you then attach a thin taught line
> from
> > the axle end and tie it off to your preset
> choker
> > based on the 27 X method .
> >
> >
> > The tight line gives the perfect angle for
> laying
> > out your reduction guide train as far as
> achieving
> > the perfect height leading into the choker. Why
> is
> > this so difficult to understand , googling
> concept
> > guide layout with Lou Caruso shows it up close.
>
> > My issue from the beginning as described in my
> > previous post is i cannot get the heights
> correct
> > for the reduction train .
> >
> >
> > (I have no idea what you are trying to
> > accomplish)
> >
> >
> > I'm trying to accomplish a reduction train
> which
> > gives me the proper height , that has been the
> > issue and continues to be the issue.
>
> That seems to be an awful lot of work for what
> you're trying to do. A straight edge, such as the
> edge of a table or a yardstick is generally enough
> to provide the straight path to set the reduction
> guides by.
>
> .........


Explaining it is an awful lot of work , implementing it is as easy as strapping down the rod upside down and running a line from spool axle to choker .

But you don't need to strap it down nor run a line anywhere. Not telling you not to do this if it's working for you, but it can made more simple than what you're doing.

............

Imo , there is no method that is easier and more accurate than having a taught line coming from the reels spool axle to choker guide and i say this after using the table edge method numerous times beforehand . The table edge method works but it's nowhere near as precise , it's certainly better than nothing but table edges have to have a perfectly square edge the entire length and eyeballing the reels axle to make sure it's perfectly in line with the edge without it moving is difficult .

Running a taught line from the reels axle and tying it off to the top edge of the choker gives you dead on precision , you slide the reduction guides along the blank until you see the line brush the top of the guide, temporarily set it and repeat for the next guide in the reduction train.

If you think something is easier than that i'd love to hear about it.

I listed it above. If you have found something you prefer then stick with it.

..............