Total agreement David.

Phil Ewanicki .........you ask why a rod blank manufacturer wouldn't advertise the ability of their blanks to transmit vibrations (energy) How would you suggest a manufacturer advertise such information so that the average person could make sense of it?

Lets say that there was an industry standard established, and that every manufacturer used the same amount of supplied energy to test their blanks. What unit of energy would be used, and how does the average angler equate that to fishing?

Then there's the whole adding components to the blank to turn it into a fishing rod. What if one rod has double foot guides and the other single foot guides? What of the number of guides one rod may have versus another? What of any differences in the thickness of finish? The variables are many. What does that leave the average, and even the experienced discerning angler with?

Feel

Oh, and the frames are carbon fiber with Titanium or SIC rings. This according to Daiwa's website.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2017 01:03PM by David Baylor.

as a long gone fishing buddy was fond of saying, "it,s all about separating fools from their money".

Can’t measure everything. I agree with David that feel is subjective but very important to the user. The variables going into making a rod are many, but this is what makes a custom rod custom. If someone wants carbon fiber guides, that’s fine with me; whatever makes you happy! Maybe one day they will become available to rod builders.
Norm

Ben, I have another one. It's about catching the fisherman not the fish.

Terry: Vibrations per second or fractions of foot pounds of energy transmitted from rod blank tip to butt could be used to measure "sensitivity". Of course this test would be performed on a bare blank since that is the topic of this thread, not finished rods. Scientific instruments can measure differences below the threshold of human perception, but even this information could (and would) be used to substantiate advertisers' claims of "increased sensitivity" and "soulful action" - and catch more Catostomas commersoni.

David Baylor , the truth is my reaction to the sensitivity issue above wasn't fit to type. As usual I agree with you. Almost makes you think some don't quite understand the situation or perhaps wish more discourse on the subject. David Miller, where did you locate this info?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2017 03:49PM by Lynn Behler.

If a customer comes to you and says i would like a custom rod just like this one i bought off the shelf and i want it to be as sensitive as this one from the store, do you tell him he overpaid for something that he cannot discern? If a customer asks you can you build me a sensitive rod do you tell him well i can't because you cannot discern that measurement? If a customer wants you to build him a sensitive rod using such and such particular parts do you tell him i can build you a rod but everything you want it to do is subjective as far as feel and sensitivity? Do you take the customer into your shop and show him all the equipment you have that will show him he cannot discern any thing he is looking for? How many NORMAL customers even grasp the concept of things like CCS, frequency resonation or a myriad of other things you explain to them? In the end it boils down to, i don't care or understand any of that i just want a fishing rod that is sensitive and has good feel and thats why off the shelf rods outnumber Custom rods, they are giving the customer the product he thinks is giving him what he is after. They, meaning the customer and the manufacturer don't care if it can be measured or not.

Lighter in weight, no rust, cool looking. What more do you need?

Almost any system of objective and relative measurement can be understood by the consumer. They already do it with weight, distance, temperature, etc. Whether or not 70F is hot, or not, is subjective. Whether 70F is hotter than 80F is not. It is the relative nature of any system that counts.

Sensitivity could be measured in a number of ways and presented in a relative fashion. But this brings another aspect into play between maker and consumer. If a maker of two identical rods wants to make one more sensitive than another he can drop a single guide and do it. Dropping two or three would make the rod yet more sensitive. Would the consumer understand that a rod might have too few guides in order to property distribute stress? Or would he simply choose which ever rod had the numbers to prove it was the most sensitive? I'm never against not providing more information (the consumer can use it, or not) but in the marketing game sometimes one area suffers in order to achieve another and the end result is a poorer product, albeit one that has more appeal to the customer. Sometimes.

...............

i remember one time going into a fly shop and the man working there showing me fly rods built for prformance..they had 12 big chunks of plastic hanging on them including the ferrules..sorry no way..if you got epoxy on your rod your not built for performance, your built for cosmetic reasons not performance..there is such a difference without epoxy..it,s like night and day and a lot cheaper than $100 guides..there was someone on this site that wrapped only the foot of the guide not the toe just to reduce the amount of epoxy used and saved weight..if they used perma gloss think how much weight would be saved..the one thing i,ve learned about rod building is that cosmetics is way more important than performance...that,s true in fly tying too..lol.

Hey Lynn,

Found info through google pictures and clicked on K style guide. It shown price in yen converted to USD from a Japanese seller.

It all boils down to: can you build a rod that lets me feel what my bait is doing better than the last one I was using? So I guess you have to build however many different rods with all the best components that are all identical in specs, let him try them all and decide which he likes best. He will then have the most sensitive rod there is. Subjective . People will swear by a rod that I absolutely know is not as good as they believe. Some guys think they have the best of things just because they bought them, and they only buy the best. Thanks for the response David.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2017 08:51PM by Lynn Behler.

This brings us back to the chief benefit a custom rod builder has to offer: a rod customized to fit the user. First, trying to build rods cheaper than store-bought is a waste of time, but the custom builder can offer a rod which best suits its user. A "sensitive" carp rod is a whole lot different than a "sensitive" musky rod. A "smooth casting" fly rod for an angler who can cast 40' is a lot different than a "smooth casting" fly rod for an angler who can cast 90'. A solid glass rod is perfect for the angler who transports it hanging over the tailgate, with a 1 oz. sinker bouncing around on the line. A custom builder can't match glowing (but meaningless) generalities with advertising agencies, but a good custom builder certainly can build a rod suited to its user and the environment where it will be used.

Phil,
Absolutely!

Wow, nobody hurt my feelings, I'm a little on the sensitive side.

LOL Lynn .......

A few years ago I went on a search for an ultra sensitive rod for river fishing with 6 or 8 lb line and 1/16th and 1/8 oz weights and finesse worms. I'm on my 6th rod and still looking. In the lake most of the rods are great but... I've been using ultra light, Mimima, guides, size A thread, smaller guides, less guides, better blanks etc that people on this site have steered me to. Everyone's right about fish rod feeling being subjective.

IT's funny to see "custom rod builders" with no first hand experience with these guides poking fin at them. TOm K has been talking about something like this for 10+ years, and here they are. The price is hilarious...custom better than factory is what everyone says, and here are factory rods selling for way more than most custom rods, and selling a lot - and you see posts by custom builders that they struggle to find customers willing to pay. THEre's a reason why - and that reason is teh factory rods are better than their custom rods, lol. PRetty sad.

it will be interesting to see what fuji comes out with..