Hi all! I will first introduce myself. I have been fishing my entire life and started fly fishing 5 years ago. Now I am am planning my 3rd rod build (still learning a lot).

Now on to the build questions. I am planning to build a custom Epic Bandit 10wt rod. The other rods I have built have been their 6wt and 8 wt kits. Their kits are great but this time I would like to spec out my own components and truly make it my own (that's the fun of it, right?). My main purpose for this rod for ultimate utility. It will serve as a kayak rod and targeting large FW and SW species (i.e. Pike, carp, redfish).

While looking into the guides I will be using, I stumbled upon folks using single foot ceramic ring guides instead of tradition snake guides. I have been doing a lot of research on this topic, but I in doing so I feel more confused from when I started and feel this still may be in debate among the community.

First question, when would one consider using ceramic over snakes?

Second, I have been looking at the Fuji k series titanium torzite running guides, if I did use ceramic guides, are these appropriate?

As I said above, I am new to building so I am trying to learn as I go here. I am totally open to thoughts and suggestions.

Thanks!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2017 06:00PM by Brad Reed.

Ceramics won't wear or groove and aid in line pay out under load, such as when fish fighting. They are "quiet." It would be a mistake, however, to expect greater casting distance with them. Not much friction going on between line and guides on the cast.

Snakes are a little lighter in most cases and can handle a bit more abuse. They work.

The Pacific Bay Minima 4 guides make a nice "in-between" selection for fly rods.

............

Brad Reed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi all! I will first introduce myself. I have
> been fishing my entire life and started fly
> fishing 5 years ago. Now I am am panning my 3rd
> rod build (still learning a lot).
>
> Now on to the build questions. I am planning to
> build a custom Epic Bandit 10wt rod. The other .
> rods I have built have been their 6wt and 8 wt
> kits. Their kits are great but this time I would
> like to spec out my own components and truly make
> it my own (that's the fun of it, right?). My main
> purpose for this rod for ultimate utility. It
> will serve as a kayak rod and targeting large FW THEY WILL HAVE TO BE REALLY LARGE FISH FOR THAT ROD
> and SW species (i.e. Pike, carp, redfish).
>
> While looking into the guides I will be using, I
> stumbled upon folks using single foot ceramic ring
> guides instead of tradition snake guides. I have
> been doing a lot of research on this topic, but I
> in doing so I feel more confused from when I
> started and feel this still may be in debate among
> the community.
>
> First question, when would one consider using NEVER
> ceramic over snakes?
>
> Second, I have been looking at the Fuji k series
> titanium torzite running guides, if I did use
> ceramic guides, are these appropriate? ONLY SINGLE FOOT - IF YOU INSIST ON CERAMICS
>
> As I said above, I am new to building so I am
> trying to learn as I go here. I am totally open
> to thoughts and suggestions.
>
> Thanks!
THE ROD IS DUMB. IT DOESN'T KNOW IF THE WEIGHT IT USES TO LOAD IS FROM THE COMPONENTS OR LINE. THE MORE WEIGHT YOU ADD TO THE COMPONENTS - I.E. CERAMICS VS SNAKES - THE LESS PAYLOAD - I.E. FLY LINE 0 YOU WILL BE ABLE TO DELIVER.
IDEA IS TO KEEP WEIGHT AS LOW AS POSSIBLE. - I.E. SNAKES VS CERMICS.

Brad: A few things to think about:

(1) Is there truly an objectively defined benefit(s) vs marketing hype?

(2) Do knots truly pass more easily through one or the other? My personal experience is knot passage is more frequently an issue at the tip top instead of the other guides, but maybe that is just me. Regardless, knot passage can and ought to be managed by the fisherman,

(3) Casting distance advantage, if any for either, is clearly in the margins.

(4) Corrosion is a commanding issue for the salt.

Last rod I built for the salt used REC Recoil strippers, snakes, and tip top. My thinking was the REC titanium will not rust, they are light, and, as salt water sometimes means rocking and rolling boats where things such as rods can suffer booms and bangs, magically get under foot, etc., the Recoils have some hope of returning to their original shape.

All that said, it is a close call.

There is little if any chance of a fly line grooving the guides on a fly rod, and resistance to grooving is the chief benefit of ceramic guides. The chief advantage of snake guides is their geometry allows for easier passage of line-to-leader knots and the small line snarls which are common in fly lines.

I've built several fly rods with ceramic guides, mostly with the Fuji TKTAG running guides. They work very well, look unique and just plain work great. They have not been fragile as some have stated. You notice the smoothness of the guides only with a fish running, otherwise, you can't tell any difference from snake guides.

But...they are quite expensive, especially if you want titanium frames with torzite rings- somewhere in the neighborhood of $12 per guide. That seems like a lot to pay when you are building a nice, but not high end rod.

Since you plan a mix of salt and fresh, and some heavy use (like kayak fishing) I'd recommend using the REC snake guides. They are tough, rust free and perfect for your uses without breaking the bank.

Thanks for all of the great responses. Certainly helped me out.

Thinking REC snakes will be the happy medium.

Thanks all!