Hi All,

I'm new to the forum, but have been building fly rods from blanks on an occasional basis for quite some time. I'm considering building a 7 weight from a Winston B111x blank I have, using Fuji SIC titanium guides for the first 4 guides and Recoil single foot guides for the remainder. I want to maintain a light and lively mid-tip, but I think the ceramics would add a smooth castability down low. Have others tried this? What are the pros and cons? All feedback is appreciated...Thanks, Mel

Mel,
If you are building a fly rods, there are virtually no guides that are really any better than snake guides.

Be safe

The Pacific Bay Minima guides work quite well on fly rods. Although I have used very lightweight ceramics in the past, over the last few years I am using the Minimas almost exclusively on fly rods. I find them to be an excellent all-around, best of world's type guide for fly rods.

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Have you ever combined the Minimas or light ceramics with titanium snakes, single or double foot?

I have not. Doubt there would be any practical benefit as the Minima's are so light to begin with.

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Mel,
I routinely build using single foot light wire titanium for the top 3 or 4 guides, changing to snake further from the tip and insert guides for the stripper and next guide up. I also typically use 9 guides for a 9' rod and 8 for an 8' rod.
The blank you are choosing is a nice casting blank and the guide weight reduction at the rod tip only improves upon an already good blank.
Quicker rod response, easier mending and a lighter overall "feel".
The rod doesn't need any extra "bling" or any parasites dragging down the performance. The quicker the rod tip responds to your stroke, the better.

Gene

Thanks... I agree with the pursuit of lightness and quickness, especially toward the tip.. why not use recoils for all the running guides? Why bother with the snakes?... Mel

Mel,
Been there, done that. Still have several rods built that way that have caught many fish.
I did experience a reduction in fly line life though. This is most likely due to the contact nature of the guide. Under load while playing a fish the guide acts as a scraper due to it's geometry perpendicular to the rod blank. The snake guides contact the line at an angle distributing load over distance. This results in increased line life and stress reduction against the line, while under load. Similar to contact with a speed bump at an angle versus head-on.
At the rod tip the priority is weight reduction and the lack of blank stiffness reduces the load between line and guide.
Have also used titanium snakes for the guide train after the stripper. Very good performance with the exception of the second wrap required adding weight at the rod tip. Got good fly line life though.
The hybrid approach was where I ended my experimentation.
Good line life with light quick rod response.
Snake guides are the best choice for line control where the line is moving parallel with the blank. Good line control loaded or not. Durable, long lasting, easily threaded, light weight, stress reduction against fly line and reduced friction during the cast and mend. What's not to like ??

Gene

I get it... good strippers for shooting line, snakes to balance the load, and lightness at the tip. Sounds like a plan. One last question: Do you use the same size guides for all your running guides or do you gradually downsize? I've always done the latter, but wonder about the former in terms of reduced weight and efficiency... Thanks, Mel

Mel,
The tip 3-4 guides are light wire single foot titanium of the same size.
The rest are tapered larger toward the butt with the stripper the largest. Normally a size 12 double foot stripper.
I use a progressive guide distance and believe the greater the distance between guides the greater the variation on entry angle to the guide, therefore the larger the guide diameter required.
I've been through enough experiments to evaluate strength and weakness of various guide layouts.
This is the best compromise I've found. Works for every condition I've yet to run into.

Gene

Going against the grain a little here. More single foot ceramic guides are lighter than less double foot snake guides. If the rod is 9' then the proper amount of guides is going to be 11 + tip top. I would recommend Fuji L frames for the running guides ceramic (SIC) rings 7mm running guides on Titanium frames and Fuji KW Ti frames with SIC or Torzite rings in size 16mm and 10mm as strippers. An alternate stripper configuration KW frame with 12mm and a L frame 8mm. I do not like single foot snakes because the ring is not completely round instead they have a little niche where it can pinch the line on the back cast. More guides hold the line straighter and decrease wear on the line letting the line travel farther. The problem is these guides are not cheap like the snake guides so they will set you back a little. Use a Fuji KG Arowana Tip Top 7mm. There is no need to use a bunch of different sized guides, 3 different ring sizes is enough (2 different stripper sizes and 1 running guide size).