Hi folks, I was just curious if anybody knew what kind of spiral wrap Gary loomis does on his new brand edge rods? I have seen s few and they seem to be a slow transition compared to a 'simple spiral' or Roberts wrap. Any help would be appreciated, thank you!

In my humble opinion a simple spiral is for a short boat rod. The less transition with straighter line (slow or Forhan) is better for casting

There is no transition in the Simple Spiral. The line flows in the straightest possible manner and goes from the reel to the bottom of the rod without having to turn any corners nor make any deviations from a straight path. The Forhan Revolver type wrap, while certainly fine, does not create the same straight line path that the Simple Spiral does. There is no other spiral method, of which I'm aware, that results in the same straight line path that the Simple Spiral does. The O'Quinn method would be the closest to the SS insofar as allowing the line to travel a nearly straight path. Many surf casters favor it.


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Ehh

My favorite trout/red rod is a simple spiral...and it casts a country mile.

The ones on the rack aren't spiral wrapped, it's something you have to ask for, so I haven't seen one.

Looked on Tackletour, looks like maybe an O'Quinn wrap or something close, looks like an offset stripper with a four guide transition to the 180 guide, at least on the flipping rod picture I saw.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2017 10:34PM by Spencer Phipps.

Yea that's what my buddies look like but, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought the O'Quinn was about every four inches till the 180? His looks like a bigger distance then that.

Your discription is not an O'Quinn, sounds closer to the Forhan maybe, but the guides in transition are actually 6 inches apart on the Forhan.

Let me re-phrase this; there will be less length in the transition from top to bottom in a simple spiral if not the line will rub on the blank. The longer this takes to go from top to bottom down the length of the blank the more guides it will take to keep the line off the blank. Whatever works for you keep doing it. I use something closer to a Forhan to decrease the angle of the line at the bottom guide where there is a slight change of direction.The shorter distance of a simple spiral has a greater angle at the bottom guide. I started doing spiral wraps before I knew they had a name and just went with what I think works best after my own testing. I have only done spirals with micro guides so taller larger ring guides will increase the distance of the transition of the line from the top of the blank to the bottom of it.

The O'Quinn if I remember right, as it's been 10 years, or so since I did my last uses conventional spacing, a guide is first set at the place the rod starts it's 90 degree bend under load than space guides front and back from there. The guides from the reel forward are spaced conventionally than rotated to the bottom in a straight path, I used a light power rod tip from a 9 ft. 2 piece fly rod to get the path straight, I just ran the blank from the reel and through the guides to the guide that was first positioned at the bend as discribed before. You could use flyline, twine, or yarn I imagine to get an easily visible line path also.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2017 10:23AM by Spencer Phipps.

From the pictures I see from Google...

It looks like the butt guide is close to a 45 offset. Then there is a 90...followed by a 135 leading to the 180s.

Maybe we can name this one the Loomis method. @#$%& they all seem to have names. Change the angles by a degree and you can name a spiral after yourself. LoL

Hey thanks for all the input guys! Just out of curiosity what method do you guys prefer? I finished a casting rod a few weeks ago and used the simple spiral and really liked that but then was reading in the Search bar and it seems people prefer a different style for casting. Just curious what your thoughts were?

Lance Schreckenbach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> …... I have only done
> spirals with micro guides so taller larger ring
> guides will increase the distance of the
> transition of the line from the top of the blank
> to the bottom of it.


i was contemplating a spiral wrap guide setup on my next build.( moderate power/ moderate action crankbait rod ) …. with the micro guides do you find you need more guides to make the transition, are they spaced closer together, etc ?

Sam.
I don't need any additional transition guides, or for any for them to be any closer together.
Trace,
I use the simple spiral most often, since the guides are on the bottom I use the criteria set up in spacing the guides in Rich Forhan's book instead of adding more guides as necessary if you distribution test then rotate them to the bottom as in the Simple Spiral article. IMO, the extra use of guides lately on rods has more to do with the popularity of braid and it's ability to throw loops around guides and tip tops, the small guides do a much better job of controlling the line and the size makes it less likely to happen, but these are just opinions. Picked this opinion up from the surf and sturgeon anglers some years ago.
Heard just the other day some saying the additional guides, but not necessarily micros, dramatically improve casting distance and hooksetting power, my ""REALLY" meter lit up pretty good, but I kept my mouth shut. There was some fly anglers saying the same some 15 years ago, or so, but it didn't appear to take.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2017 10:16AM by Spencer Phipps.

I'm like Spencer. I use the bumper guide, but not a true simple spiral. I'd say you can take away 1-2 guides on the average rod if you modify it.

So when you guys do the simple spiral do just put all the guides on the bottom and static test?

Instead of static testing as a casting rod, I do it as a spinning rod. So instead of the 3 - 3 1/2 inches apart that seems popular now on top casting rods at the tip, I'm using 4 1/2 - 5 inches from the tip to the first guide than progressing like you see on spinning rods. Pretty much like the Edge rod pics on Tackletour, but a simple spiral between the first and second guides from the reel instead of the slower transition.
On my personal rods I place the next guide back from the tip top where it is necessary to be following the blank, if the tip isn't bending I see no reason for a guide, and lots of rods don't bend much till you get back from the tip a ways, listened to Emory Harry to much.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2017 04:24PM by Spencer Phipps.

Spencer,
10-4 on the first guide from the tip being further from the tip, than the 2nd guide spacing to the first guide.

On most of my first rods, I would always taper the guides. But, after a while, I realized that it was silly to put a guide near the tip where the tip is not bending.

It may look a bit odd, but it works great.

Be safe

Sam Folds III Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lance Schreckenbach Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > …... I have only done
> > spirals with micro guides so taller larger ring
> > guides will increase the distance of the
> > transition of the line from the top of the
> blank
> > to the bottom of it.
>
>
> i was contemplating a spiral wrap guide setup on
> my next build.( moderate power/ moderate action
> crankbait rod ) …. with the micro guides do you
> find you need more guides to make the transition,
> are they spaced closer together, etc ?

I use 1 on top at 0 degrees and 2 on the side, on the 4th one it will be at 180 degrees under the rod. I am trying to get a straight line as possible without the line touching the blank either unloaded (straight) or under load (bent). The spacing will depend on this.

Hey thanks for all the information guys! My next casting rod I build (I'm sure I'll find a need for another one) I'll have to try out the different methods and see how they cast. I must say though for simplesty of the bumper spiral sure is nice!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2017 01:43AM by Trace Butkovich.