And a glorious, good day to all.
I am pondering of stepping out of my (Fuji) comfort zone and livin’ on the wild side by using Minimas to compliment a vintage FG Conolon UL trout rod. Unlike Angler’s Resource’s awesome job of listing ALL Fuji guide heights, I am having difficulty locating similar spec sheets for PacBay products. I only found a few on their site. It would be a lot easier to order the correct guides with height information.
Also, please try not to laugh too loudly as I expose my ignorance. Concerning PacBay Minimas, what is a “Match Frame” guide (model M)? How does it differ from a “High Frame” guide (model ZV) or the regular SV guide other than height? Do the Minimas automatically space-out nicely as do the Fujis? I am used to and appreciate Fuji’s KL-H / KR Concept even though prefer to use size 6 runners (I’ve got old eyes and fumbling fingers) and like the high frame/small ring theory.
Guidance to the uninformed newbie is appreciated.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Mark, You might need a Pac-Bay catalog for that info. Go to their site and request one. They get them out pretty fast. Now I know why I can't get a Bklag-20 H anywhere! You might be able to tell something from the Utmost site. Decided to go KR this time and now no one has a ss alconite 20H in stock.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2017 06:05PM by Lynn Behler.

You can download a Pac Bay catalog. I'm sticking with Fuji. I know the quality, I know the proper design, the price is OK, lot of info on their site and catalog. Not changing.

Mark, for Ultralight and light action rods the Minima match (M) guides coupled with Minima fly (F) work very well and the SS Minima set are a few grams lighter than the Fuji KR guide set in SS. If you the titanium frames even lighter. The heights of the M guides are very close to the KL-H guides with the same ring size. Michael is correct the Minima height listing are in the PacBay catalog. Use the same Minima M groupings as KR groupings for your ultra light. I am assuming 16M, 8M, and 5M with runners of your choice.
Here's the catalog link: [www.fishpacbay.com]
Norm

I guess I will have to request a catalog. Their site does not show the specs on all the Minimas.
Michael, don’t get me wrong, I agree with you, don’t blame you, and Fuji will remain my go-to guide. But I just want to try, experience and learn from a popular option. You know, variety is the spice of life. All you veterans have experienced and learned from many different aspects of rod building, and I will never learn if doing the same thing time after time. After using the Minimas, maybe I’ll learn to stick with Fuji.
But I still do not know what a “Match” guide is.
I want to be just like you guys when I grow up!!!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

All the specs that you see on the Fuji site are on the PacBay site on each guide's page. Pac Bay has been giving us quality parts for maybe 40 years, all the original G Loomis rods used their guides and reel seats though they used the Wiebe reel seats also. I've got some 30 year old G Loomis rods still going strong on the original Pac Bay guides.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2017 07:57PM by Spencer Phipps.

Mark, the PacBay catalog link takes a few seconds to load, it's 90 pgs long. The M guides are on page 18 where their specs are listed. The F guides are on pg 27.
Norm

For a rod that light I doubt you'd notice the difference between the 2 types, and the minimas are lighter. Ceramic rings may offer a little longer casting distance. Maybe.

Actually the minima KR-like setup casts slightly further than the Fuji KR setup when using the same ultralight blank, reel, and braided line. I think this is due to the rod being a little more responsive with a quicker recovery because of less weight in the tip section. In other words the rod is a little less sloppy!
Norm

[www.mudhole.com]

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

Spencer,
I am certainly in no position nor have a reason to dispute or doubt your opinion of PacBay products. I would like to experience the qualities of the Minima guides, hence my post. I did acquire the heights of the SVs, ZVs and Ms from their site.
Since you are obviously a PacBay advocate, can you afford me with answers to three of my original questions? 1.) What is a “Match Frame” guide (model M)? ; 2.) How does it differ from the ZV and SV other than the obvious height? ; 3.) Do all the Minimas space out as nicely as Fuji KLs or KL-Hs? Actually, I have a fourth question; 4.) Since there are virtually no inserts, does the stated ring size reflect the actual size of the ring or an adjusted size to be comparable to a guide with an insert? Maybe a better way to pose the question is to ask if the ID of a size 16 Minima is similar to the ID of other size 16 guides with inserts?

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

The inside of a minima ring measures the same as the outside of a ceramic ring. A size 16 ceramic has a smaller i.d. than the equivalent minima. I believe they do fall into position about the same as KL-H's.

Lynn, Michael, Norman, Spencer and Chuck,
Thanks to all, I can always rely on you guys to help me out. Chuck made me feel to stupidest by not thinking to use Mud Holes site which is much easier than other ways attempted. Norman, you are correct and while the heights are not exact between the Minima Ms and KL-Hs, they should be close enough for GPS to get me started.
As stated in my last post, I still have a few Minima questions. Please refer back to that post so I’m not hunting and pecking this keyboard with my two fingers again while you are already replying.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Mark, if I remember right, match frame guides were originally used on ultralight rods for casting distance. I am probably wrong, but the idea was to keep the line away from the rod blank even at the tip of the rod. This was supposed to increase casting distance on these rods. This is what I remember from past reading.

Match guides have been around for a long time and are particularly popular in Europe where they are used on long rods for tournament (match) fishing for certain types of rough fish. Hence the name match rods and match guides. These guides are used because the high frame small ring design reduces weight without sacrificing performance. The high frame small ring design also gives them a very distinctive look, and were not very popular in US because, at the time, all of the guides used on a rod including runners had the high frame small ring and they looked strange. The coupling of high frame small ring reduction guides with low frame runners did not come into vogue until relatively recently; with the Fuji KR concept being the most modern version. If you think about it the KL-H guides are nothing more than a match guides that tilts forward with the tangle free (K) design. So match guides coupled with a low frame runners can be used in exactly the same way as Fuji KR guides. Fuji used to sell match guides in the US but they have been discontinued here for a while. Right now PacBay is basically the only supplier of match guides in the US, producing both the minima and ceramic ring form. The minima M and F guides give a very light and less expensive alternative to the KR guides and they are spaced exactly the same as the KR guides. Because of the hard chrome ring the ID of the ring is larger than a comparatively sized ceramic ring. Seaguide does make a ceramic ringed match guides but you can not find them in the US. Seaguide and Kigan also make KR-like guides but again they hard to find. I have used the SeaGuide KR-like guides in both 316 stainless frames and titanium frames both with RS rings, very nice and very light, but also more expensive, and still can't find them in the US. Supposedly, Anglers Workshop will begin stocking the Seaguide KR-like guides with the RS ring. Hope this helps to answer some of your questions.
Norm

Mark,
The stainless minima guides are very inexpensive.

It might make sense to you to just order up a set of match guides, sv guides and f style guides for your use and edification.

I use the minima guides quite often on builds. For a spinning rod, I will use a match guide for the first or stripper guide, then an SV guide for the next two reduction guides and will use F guides for the runners.

Size is up to you.

I found that if I used an SV guide with the typical spinning reel - the client would often end up with line slap that the client did not like and generally asked me to replace the SV guide with a match guide to avoid the issue.

Now, I will always use a match guide for the stripper guide unless a request is made to the contrary.

Good luck

Gary, apparently your memory serves you well. You must not be as old as me.
Norman, thank you for the in-depth background information and knowledge. Very good to know.
Roger, thank you also for application information and knowledge. Very helpful.
It is no secret that I am basically a Fuji kind of guy. Employing KL-Hs, KBs and KTs + KR Concept on the last 5 vintage FG spinning rods has allowed me to build very functional rods which follow my motto of “Vintage Craftsmanship Utilizing Advanced Technologies”. The finely tuned modern components and concepts really enhance the pleasure of fishing an old FG rod, plus the new components on an old FG rod look pretty dang cool.
The reason I am considering the Minimas is simply to produce a more conventional (for that era) look, consistent with the way rods looked back in the 50s and 60s, even if not consistent with my motto. Although the high-frame, small-ring Ms or ZVs would probably perform better, I was actually considering using the SVs, for the runners as well, simply to achieve an old-school look.
So, Roger, (or anyone else for that matter), if using a small-spooled UL reel, would line slap be an issue if a SV-20 or 25 was used for the stripper?
Thanks for anyone’s time, concern and reply.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Mark, I think using Minimas would still be in keeping with your motto. While appearing to resemble the old style of guide, modern materials are way ahead of those old rings we all remember.

Mark,
The only way to know for sure is to do a wrap with a say - size 20 sv guide and the rest of the guide train and test it.

If you find that line slap is a problem for you, then cut off the sv guide and wrap on a size 20 match guide.

Some reels and lines react differently than other reels and lines so to be sure - wrap and test.

By the way, for any spinning rods that I build for myself, I always use a match guide for the first guide.

Take care

Lynn & Roger,
Thanks yet again. Maybe I should just move down the street from Mud Hole. No, then I be divorced for sure!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.