Ok guys one more question, I'm building a 8'6" spinning rod. The reel I'm using is a shimano stradic ci4+ 3000 with 15# braid. The question I have is sizing the reduction train, I read the guide article in the library but in order to do it the way it suggests it seems I would have to have extra guides laying about which I don't. I would like to use the KL guides from fuji's k series. Not the tall frame small ring ones mainly because I like the looks better. For running guides I'm thinking on trying the 4.5 KTs. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Trace
If you will go the Anglers Resource page ( [anglersresource.net] )
and read the articles on:
Guide placement software-- including the link to the "Reel measurement tutorial" at the bottom of the page.
KR gps
Static load tutorial
Theory of the New Guide Concept (NGC)
Theory of the KR Concept.

You will have most if not all of the information you seek

I've done that but can only use the KR concept gps and not the NGC gps. For the K series it gives me sizes for the KL-H guides the ones I would prefer not to use. Maybe I could compare guide heights on there sizing chart? Do you think that would work?

They are two different software set ups.

[anglersresource.net] for NGC set ups with ALL Fuji guides except KL-H

[anglersresource.net] for KL-H guides used to set up KR Concept spinning rods ONLY. No other guides.

The regular KL guides are used the same way as would be used to set up a NGC using the Fuji NGC GPS, which does not work with my IPad, or Iphone. Another option would be to do a hybrid setup using KL guides in a KR concept. For example, KL25, KL16, and KT10 are the same height as KL16H, KL8H, and KL5.5M, and could be used in a three guide reduction train. KL25, KL16, KL12 and KT8, are the same height as KL16H, KL8H, KL6M, and KL5.5L, and could be used in a four guide reduction train. In either case, if you want to you could a larger runner or two to transition to your KT4.5 runners. Your ci4+ 3000 reel is the same size as the ci4+2500, just holds more line. This reel will work fine with these guide trains. Looking for a nice straight line from the bottom of the spool through the reduction train, and other straight line from choke to tip top. If needed can push the stripper and reduction guides slightly forward, I.e., from 19" to 20" or 21". Pushing the stripper slightly forward accomplishes the same thing as using a slightly larger stripper. Hope this helps.
Norm

Norman, you are always a wealth of information.
Trace, if you are planning on using 4.5 micro runners, I do not understand your objection to keeping the entire guide train consistent with use of KL-Hs and the benefit of rapid choking verses larger ringed KLs. But then I suppose I’m guilty as well by using KL-Hs with size 6 or 7 runners to accommodate my old eyes and fossilized fingers.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Hey thank you guys! That's just what I was looking for Norman. Now do you think there choker point layout would still work or the 27 times layout be better?

The resin for the kl instead of kl-h is mainly because i like the look of the kl better then the kl-h probably terrible reasoning but is it harder to use micros with the new guide concept?

Trace use the KR GPS just substitute the appropriate KLs for the KL-H. Use the choke pt given in the KR GPS, which will be about 48" from the spool tip.
Norm

Ok thank you.

The NGC traditionally used size 6 runners, but there is no reason why smaller runners cannot be used. If you like a certain style of guides then use them. This is yet another example of what makes a custom rod custom. Be sure to test cast to make sure it meets your expectations. I am certain it will perform very well.
Norm