I am building a Sage 9' 10wt 4pc rod and will be using 12 Fuji KW 20, KW 12, L 8 and nine more L 6 running guides with a 6 Arowana Tip Top. These are titanium frames and a mix of Torzite and SIC rings. The Torzite has a bit larger ring diameter so I am using them on the 1st stripper and the TT. i am pretty much set on the ring sizes but am wondering on the Guide height of the runners and the choke guide (L 8). Do they need to be higher say like a K frame. Also my intention on the amount of guides is to keep the line as straight as possible and maintain similar mass as the original type of Sage snake guides (Hopkins & Holloway 3s) in the tip. What do you think?

I would drop the L8 for starters. It's not going to do anything for you. Replace it with a 6. A lower frame will aid in keeping the rod straight on the forward cast. Under load from a fish, it won't matter. So stick with what you've got provided you know that the 6's will pass your line and any required connections. That would be my only concern and particularly if you are going to be using loop to loop connections. Actual ring opening have gotten larger per size in recent years owing to the fact that the ceramic rings have gotten so much thinner.

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For what it's worth...6s are too small for me in this application. For line weights #9 or above I go up to 7s for the runner and tip top based on my personal experience. As Tom noted, it's all about passing your knots (hopefully outbound and at speed hooked up to something big!).

Like Bill I used 7s on my 10wt. Which Sage blank are you building?

Spencer Phipps Wrote:
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> Like Bill I used 7s on my 10wt. Which Sage blank
> are you building?

Sage One 9' and I traded in the Fuji SIC Ti L 6s for 7s on Bill's advice. I originally thought that a 6 would be sufficient because my loop leader connections would go through them but when I began to think about a small line tangle, I realized that perhaps most of them would not get through so a little bit larger diameter would improve the odds and still be small enough to control the line. Spencer , Bill or Tom, how many guides are you using on your 9' 4pc 10wt rods?

I used 9 guides and so does Sage, the spacing is on their website, bottom of the page, under rodbuilding. They use the guide foot facing the butt as their measuring point, it's all explained there.

Tom/Bill,
How many guides (total) are you using? I have an idea of what I am going to use but I would like to know what you believe to work best. I am not using Sage's running guide set up and I already came up with a spacing that will work. I do however like the stripper guides set up they recommend but with a different spacing.

I'm going to catch @#$%& here from some - but I would not use ceramics for running guides especially tip-top. EVER. You will sap the life out of the blank.
What do you expect to gain by overloading the blank??
Less friction - a myth.
Quiter - A myth.
Better casting qualities - just the opposite.
If you like the way it casts overloaded why not just overline the rod. That is what you are doing anyway.
Herb

I don't think guide choice has any effect on casting accuracy, and I expect a 10 wt. rod will be used where casting distance and wind are important factors. Principles of physics, not belief, declare the lighter rod will allow the fly angler to cast further. This does not apply if the fly caster can't double haul effectively, which limits his fly cast to 50' or less in a dead calm and much less in the wind.

YES !! - Phil E.
Herb

YES !! - Phil E.
Herb

Lance,
Sorry, but I have to agree with Herb.
Atta Boy Herb.
Although you might not think guide weight is a large issue, when mounted at a distance from the center of rod rotation ( the center of the grip ),
The effects are multiplied by the offset distance squared. Each additional guide carries it's own weight penalty. When added they substantially increase the effect of inertia. The rod is casting the guide weight times it's distance squared. Even without any fly line the rod will be slower.
Better to use the lightest guide possible and the fewest possible to reduce blank loading while casting. Make the rod fast and allow it to carry the weight of the fly line as the cast requires.

Gene