I would choose SIC for tip tops and Alconite for guides. The tip sees the most action and SIC is more durable than Alconite..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2022 09:02PM by John DeMartini.

Any ceramic guide for your requirements will work just fine. I've never had any guide groove, and that incluces a lot of cheap rods, whatever they had for guides.

But I have had tiptops groove.

So I now only use SIC tiptops. Will Alcontie not groove? I've not had any groove, but for the most confidence in the most critical point in the guide train, I go SIC.

Cameron,
I am surprised that others have not mentioned two other factors concerning Sic; 1.) being harder than most other ceramic guide rings also equates to it being more brittle and hence more susceptible to fracture / failure from relatively minor bumps and banging, 2.) Sic dissipates heat better than any other guide ring material. Because of #1, I rarely use Sic unless it is the only insert available for the type / style guide being employed. A broken ring will most likely end your day of fishing or at least severely impact it. As for #2, heat is admittedly an enemy of most materials, fishing line included. But I fail to see how enough heat could be generated to noticeably degrade the line when it is traveling in a rather straight line and not much actual force or abrasion applied on it by the polished guide rings, and it is usually wet as well.
As many others, I have not witnessed any grooving in “lesser” ceramics than Sic. Is comparing Sic to Alconite (or most modern guide ring ceramics for that matter) splitting hairs? While that question may be debatable, I think it actually has more to do with personal preference. For me, I trust and employ Alconite for 95% of my builds, fresh or salt. There is no question in my mind that Alconite is the best-bang-for-the-buck, but wouldn’t use it if compromised by grooving!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I haven't seen any rule of thumb for only using 1 guide per foot of rod length. Perhaps 1 guide per foot, plus one plus a tiptop, but even that would be from earlier days when guides were heavier and you had to balance sufficient stress distribution against a harmful increase in weight. Guides these days are so much lighter you can easily build rods at 1.5 guides per foot of rod length and not pay much in the way of a weight penalty.

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The amount of running guides to use should be determined by each individual blanks inherent characteristics never it's overall length . Fuji's software takes none of that into consideration . Some blanks will need more running guides than others and vice versa based on each blanks widely varying stiffness and flex profiles . Don't forget Fuji is a guide manufacturer so it's no surprise they will recommend using the most running guides possible.

One of Fuji's blatant falsehoods is that more guides equals better casting distance , this is incorrect . As long as you strategically place running guides along the blanks natural bend the fact is less overall guides produces the furthest casting distance not more . I will admit in the beginning I fell for Fuji's advertising about more guides equals better casting distance but after repeated extensive testing I found that belief to be hogwash . This doesn't mean that using the least amount of running guides possible is the way to go , (Although long distance casters will argue that point since they strongly opt for less guides for ultimate distance) it just means use enough running guides to fully support the natural flex along the entire blank but that's it , don't add any more than that . It equates to zero benefit .

Chris, you surely aren't talking about Fuji's KR software recommending using the most running guides. It's a safe bet that the wide majority of this site's members that have used the KR software will say that the software doesn't recommend enough running guides. Personally I think they should recommend at least 2 more running guides than they do.

As far as the number of running guides needed goes ...... from the comments I have seen on this site and other rod building related sites, that seems to be a personal preference kind of thing. Certainly you have to have enough guides to distribute the load along the blank well enough that it isn't going to cause the blank to break when put under a heavy load ...... but some, and this is where the personal preference thing comes in, some builders don't mind the blank flexing a little more between guides, than other builders do.

I've said before that it would be a safe bet for me to say that I probably using more running guides than most of the members of this site, do. And that is out of my personal preference to have the line's path follow the curve of the blank under load, very closely. For me it doesn't matter if it's a spinning rod, or a casting rod. I use the same number of running guides on a conventionally wrapped casting rod, as I do a spinning rod.

Of course you can over do the number of guides, but the more guides, the more of the blank's power is utilized. That and a higher number of guides (not to an extreme) helps to protect the blank if and when a rod is subjected to poor rod handling while fighting and landing a fish.

It's all a balance. More guides equals less casting distance. Less guides means less adequate stress distribution. You have to find the best compromise.

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I don't think fewer guides will result in longer casts if the rod blank is not stressed properly. If "less" means fewer than too many, then I would agree. And it may not be because of friction; it might be because the recovery time is slowed.

I believe David Baylor has it right in his philosophy. I have many rods with more guides than Fuji recommends and more than I think many builders would use and I still seem to usually be the longest caster in the boat.

No, I do not have hard data. Just a lot of builds and a lot of fishing experience.

Friction between and line and guides on the cast wouldn't be the issue - reduced rod speed due to increased weight would. Again, it's all a compromise and finding the right balance of both.

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Yes, less means fewer than "Too many" I thought my post made that clear .


" Use enough running guides to fully support the natural flex along the entire blank but that's it , don't add any more than that . It equates to zero benefit "

Fuji does not recomend too many guides.

I think that I’m in the same boat, so to speak, as David and Michael = possibly using more guides than the majority. My 7ft UL spinners usually end-up with 9 guides and a couple had (have) 10. And back to the original subject of the post, I doubt if I could tell the difference between Sic or Alconite on any of those.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Chris, the point I was trying to make was that not everyone has the same opinion on the number of guides it takes to " to fully support the natural flex along the entire blank" You may think I use too many, I may think you use too few. Or vice versa.

That's why I said it was personal preference.

Cameron,
With over 7000 views, that might be a record!!! But only 33 replies?!?!?

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

7 year old post could be why there are so many views and Cameron hasn't been around for 6.

Thanks Steven; I guess that explains that. I’m still on-the-fence with the new format.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

It did generate quite a few new post so it was probably a good topic to revisit.
Steve

Its a bunch of hype. The Alconite guides are fine and you fishing freshwater the Fuji SS frames are fine. SIC are more prone to cracking and Torzite is too expensive. Seaguide, Kigan and Alps have a better quality stainless frame material.

Although a Fuji supporter, I have always wondered why Fuji uses 302/303/304 SS rather than 316SS which has the best corrosion resistance of the commonly-available SSs.?.?.? That said, I have not experienced any corrosion on Fuji SS guides on my saltwater builds. Nonetheless….

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I believe that Fuji maintains that the processing of the materials affects the corrosion resistance and that some 302's processed properly match 316. If I'm wrong I expect Fuji will correct me. I have never had a corrosion problem with Fuji SS. I have had one frame fail from corrosion, a rod I've used in salt, and I don't know who the guide maker was. Old , cheap, travel rod.

If you go with the Corrosion Control the corrosion resistance is claimed to be better than 316 based on tests conducted by an independent lab.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2022 06:19AM by Michael Danek.