Hey guys so Im trying to figure out the advantages between Sic and Alconite. I know Sic is harder, but if both hold up to braid, what does that actually do for you? What does using Sic instead of Alconite actually accomplish for you?

Cameron,
You didn't mention where you are going to be fishing. If you are going to be fishing in saltwater environments, I would suggest using silicon carbide for the tip top or perhaps the new torzite rings. The reason is that saltwater contains more grit that is suspended in the water. I doubt there would be any large improvement if you use SiC over an alconite for the guides. For my surf rods I always use a very hard ring for my tip tops. My selection includes SiC, Zirconia,and Tungsten Carbide (hard to fine these days). Good luck with your project.

Mike Blomme

Again Cameron I agree with mike totally. I would add that the frame material is as important as anything. If you are fishing in salt water as he said titanium or similar that does not corrode is a major factor. If fresh water rod you want to reduce weight as much as possible. To truly answer your question we need more information on what you are building. Best of luck and welcome to the addiction.

Sorry guys I didnt think about including what I am fishing. I am building freshwater rods for largemouth. I have already built a lot of rods in since November, and I have been using alconite for almost everything other than three rods where I used microwaves or Alps guides. I have not had any problems at all with alconite, I just was curious as to what would be gained by going to Sic if anything.

you ask a question for input an you got it , truthfull they should both last a long time with the average person fishing, they should not have a problem with either of them , if you are into the big time fishing you might see a difference in guide wear [ many many cast per season ]
my 2 CTS

William Sidney
AK

Thanks for the post. Also, I apologize if my response sounded sarcastic or something, it seemed from how you started your post it may have been taken that way. I did not mean for it to be at all, so sorry if it was.

What I am gathering, there is really not that much of an advantage for me to go from alconite to sic considering the type of fishing I am doing. I also only fish 2 times a week at the most, but usually it is just on weekends.

The Alconite rings are actually lighter than the same sized SIC ring, so you're gaining a bit in that respect. I also believe, although I'm not sure, that it's a thinner ring, so you're gaining a bit of ID for a guide with an Alconite ring, over the same size guide with an SIC ring. Hopefully Jim Ising will see this thread and either verify or disprove my beliefs concerning the Alconite rings.

You should be fine with ALCONITE®. SiC has been the "gold standard" for many years...icing on the cake. Now there's TORZITE®. Fuji is not going to market any ring that grooves so be sure to consider smoothness and durability in your choice.

Ok thanks!

Before Torzite......what you gained was an identifiable look that said, " I am using the very best". Anyone who knew their stuff would know what guide it was (and what that implied). As far as performance advantage.....IMHO that would best come into play for fast, long running, hard fighting fish....and in particular for those wishing to catch them on the lighest line class possible (i.e. those looking to set records).

For many years Alconite was second place only to Sic. You are looking at a premium high performance item already.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Sure
If you want bragging rights and show how much money ya got
What about these guides and rings ???
[rodbuilding.org]

Bill - willierods.com

9 out of 10 rods I buid gets Alconite's. I just don't think anything compares for the coin. I've used Gunsmoke SIC's a few times and weighed them on my own scale. They are actually a bit lighter than the Alconites, and man do they look sexy on a well built rod.

Has anyone on this forum ever seen any ceramic ring groove under any fresh or saltwater fishing conditions (wire line excluded?) I'm asking because I've never seen one personally on a warranty return or seen a picture of one. If someone has, please post it and describe the conditions under which it happened. If you want the best bang for your buck as far as paying for good ceramic specs, it really hard to beat zirc. There is tons of good searchable literature on the web from labs, other industries, etc in regards to ceramic performance that may add some objectivity to the discussion.

-The Batson TEAM
BatsonEnterprises.com

Considering the vast majority of production rods on the market have aluminum oxide rings - and have no issues - I have a really hard time putting our customers in higher priced guide rings unless they just want something real specific. I guess I am a bad salesman, but I'd rather you be able to afford guides for 4 rods than only one set.

I agree with Geoff - never seen a grooved ceramic guide myself either.

Alex

Hydra Fishing, LLC

Online: [www.hydrafishing.com]
Facebook: [www.facebook.com]
Email: info@hydrafishing.com

I have never seen a grooved ceramic ring either.

John Allgood

I have an effective demonstration for people wanting to know which ceramic material is the best for handling braid. Using salvage guides (size 30-20) made with sic, zirconia, alconite, nanolite, and aluminum oxide, I give the person a hacksaw blade or a triangular file and ask them to try and groove the guides. They can not even scratch any of them no matter how hard they try. I have used the same guides for years and they are still unscratched. They then ask about price , style, and frame materials. Most choose alconite because they come in a variety of styles and frame materials at a reasonable price. Hope this helps.

Never seen a grooved guide ring, but I have tiptops. That's why I always use SIC's, alconite, Zirconium, etc. for tiptops. I think the ones I saw were on relatively cheap factory rods, those old ugly fat gray rings.

The comparison is not as simple as others make it to be. There are two goals with any guide: 1) Casting distance and 2) Friction against the guides when you have a fish on, especially one that burns line when it makes a run. All other factors being equal, the added slickness of SIC will give you a few more feet distance but in my test comparisons, I find it to not be too significant. If you are wearing down the aconite rings, you are not building your rods correctly. Here is an important point that on one ever addresses: The general rule on rod-building is one guide per foot. My rods employ more guides. For example, on a 7 1/2' medium power bass rod, I use 10 or 11 guides, not 7 or 8. Why? By reducing the sharpness of the angle of the line from one guide to the next, you diffuse the pressure and wear on the guide and on the blank. With more guides forcing the line against the exact contour of the blank, the rounded curve minimizes pressure points on any one guide and it helps prevent line breaks when playing a fish on light line. You might ask, do the added guides reduce casting distance? Just the opposite. By more finely forcing the line against the contour of the loaded rod, you make the rod work harder and you get the full power when loaded and then released on the cast. If the guide is sufficiently high enough off the blank to prevent line slap, you will get incredibly long casts. Try it one of your rods.

I look at it as ID vs guide size. Torzites allow me to go a size down in running guides. As more slim ring designs come into play, this narrows. and to me really only matters on the lightweights. Or it just makes me feel better

love alconites...as said best bang for the buck. just wish ya could still get em with titanium frames. i.have 2 sets left of titanium alconite K guides...i guess when they are spoken for i will have to choose a new titanium framed guide.