I got the idea for this thread from another recent thread where a member was wondering if he were to use a blank in the $50 price range to build a rod, would it compare to a $200 factory rod. His thread, and some of the questions I've gotten from friends and family got me wondering ..... how much would one of the rods I've built, cost me to have someone build?

So I'd like to lay out my most recent build, and the specifics I would have asked for, in hopes that some of you could indulge me, and tell me a ball park figure of what you'd charge for the same rod, if I were to walk into your shop. And please, I used to have my own carpentry business, so I understand mark up and material gathering charges, and the like, so if anyone decides to participate, I won't be shocked if you think a ball park figure you may give would scare me off. I'm just curious.

My total cost of the blank and components, including shipping was $207.00. I already had the threads, the rod bond, and finish.

Immortal IMMC72MH blank. Fuji Alconite guides, SS frames, chrome finish.

Split rear grip using black EVA foam. I shortened the butt cap and tenon of the butt grip by 3/8" so I'd have a little more blank showing between the butt grip and rear grip. I used a silver aluminum trim ring between the butt cap and butt grip. I also had to turn down the O.D. of the butt cap slightly, to match the butt grip's O.D. Black rubber winding checks for the ends of the butt grip and rear grip. Silver aluminum trim ring between the reel seat and rear grip.

The reel seat is a Pac Bay Minima split casting reel seat. I used a foam arbor for inside the thread tube. And I would have asked that a foam arbor be used. I used one of the black EVA foam Forecast high end fore grip/ nut assemblies, and would have specified that I wanted the thread barrel trimmed down so that no threads would be showing with the reel installed. Black rubber winding check at the end of thread barrel, between it and the rear portion of the reel seat. I cut a 3/8" thick piece of EVA and turned its O.D. down to fit the I.D. of the Forecast fore grip / nut assembly to use as an end cap for the thread barrel. I did that to facilitate taking off the reel, as the thread barrel was shorter than the fore grip assembly when the reel was mounted. I capped that EVA nub (I guess you'd call it) with a silver swooped aluminum winding check. (got the idea for the nub from a post on this web site)

Standard hook keeper that would require a wrap at each end. 12 guides total. Three double foot guides for reduction guides and 9 single foot running guides. Running guides are 4.5 mm, with Forhan locking wraps on the running guides. All of the wraps are black thread, no CP, with a 3 turn silver metallic trim band at one end of each wrap, and a single turn, gold metallic inlay in the center of each wrap. The same wrap is behind the tip top as well. I would have also asked for the same wrap at each end of the exposed blank portion of the split grip, with the wraps butting up against the rubber winding checks. I would have asked that those wraps be a total of 3/8" wide, each.

So that's it. I have no idea what a rod like that would cost to have built, and I actually have a buddy I fished a recent tournament with, who asked me how much I would charge him to build the exact same rod for him. I know that ultimately the decision on how much I feel my time is worth will be the determining factor for a price I may give him. But like I said..... I don't have a clue of what to charge for labor. So any answers I may receive to my request will help satisfy my personal curiosity, as well as giving me an idea of what I might charge in case I agree to my friends request.

Sorry for such a long post. But I know the more specifics a customer can give a builder, the less guess work the builder has to do. A sincere and heart felt thank you in advance, to anyone that cares to respond. And good or bad, I look forward to hearing what you have to say.

Thanks again

Generally you charge whatever the market will bear, and that comes down to the quality and performance of your work, your geographic location and the related economic demographics there. In many if not most retail operations, a "keystone" mark up is implemented that results in the merchant roughly doubling their investment. Using that as a gauge, I'd think you'd want to get about $400 for the rod you describe above. Whether or not you could actually get that much remains to be seen, but considering your investment, most business persons would expect to get at least that much.

...............

If that 207$ is the retail cost of parts then I would get around 350$ for that rod.

If that 207$ is the retail cost of parts then I would get around 350$ for that rod.

Tom and Victor, thank you both very much for your responses. I truly do appreciate them.

Tom, the price you mentioned is about what I expected for a number on the high side. Definitely not what I would think would be an unreasonable number by any means. Especially considering the way the rod performs. Thank you again for your response.

Victor, yes that is retail price for the parts, and your number is exactly the number I had in mind, and based on the way the rod performs, is a number I feel I should easily get. Of course I have an advantage in that department over a builder that just had someone walk into his shop, because I let my friend fish the rod for a bit during the tournament. So he knows they type of rod he would be getting for that price.

I would think it would be tough for you guys that have customers asking you to build them rods in that price range, with them not knowing the potential of the rods performance before hand. Kind of like when I had my business. I know it was tough giving someone a price when they hadn't been referred from a previous customer.

I don't envy you guys in that respect, at all.

Thank you again for your responses. Very much appreciated.

Dave,

Here is how I would approach the problem. Start with the MSRP of components or what you paid (whichever is higher). Any discount should be in your favor at this point, as it will leave a little wiggle room to adjust the final price to a round number if you wish. Add in the cost of shipping accrued in ordering the components. Then consider incidentals, finish, Exacto blades, cp, thread, electricity, heating, rent, custom ink jet decal, and other expenses (essentially the cost of doing business). For a low volume builder operating at home to make a few bucks, this may be $5. For someone operating out of a retail space, this could be significantly more. Then it's time to charge for labor, knowledge, and skill. I would say $150 to $175 would be in the ball park for a rod. Finally add in $10 for the excise tax and OH sales tax at about $25. With your $207, this brings things to about $387. I would likely absorb a couple bucks and round off at $385. With the ability to buy wholesale, you might be able to get the rod out the door around $325 or so without giving up anything in the way of profit. Decorative wraps would come with an additional charge based on the length and complexity of the wraps. Since they are not my forte, I would have no idea what to charge, as I would think it could range from a few bucks per inch with a simple open wrap to tens of dollars per inch on a complex closed wrap or large detailed weave.

This ends up in the ball park that Tom listed, and if you compare to the semi custom rods offered through something like Kistler's custom rod service, you can show your customer what a bargain they are getting. However, I don't think the market in Ohio would bear that kind of price (Kistler's) on a regular basis.

Joe

At risk of being controversial...there is another way to look at this issue / topic. I mean no offense but want to encourage a different perspective.

I vividly remember discussing pricing with Tom Kirkman at a Rod Builder's Guild Conclave in Nashville some years back. I was basically apologizing for my pricing and slightly embarrassed what I was asking - and getting - for my work. Tom asked me when the last time I had a customer say NO based on price. The answer was never. His response was, 'You are not charging enough".

That is a totally different perspective and really got me thinking. Hopefully Tom - who is perfectly capable of speaking for himself - doesn't mind me sharing it.

To me there is nothing worse than being extremely busy and not making enough money for your time. Assuming you have very good quality and can deliver the goods (you are not simply assembling a factory rod and calling it custom) you can actually use pricing to control your demand. Essentially, I don't want to be frenzied busy and I want to be making a reasonable profit on my time. So I am A-OK pricing myself out of some work...maybe even a lot of work. I stay as busy as I want to and it is worth my time when I am working. I also tend to work on very interesting and challenging projects this way and that is fun for me. That is why I started building custom rods.

This may be an unfair generalization, but pricing to this segment of the market also tends to avoid a certain type of (in my opinion) unreasonable customer who wants jump over a barrel service, impeccable attention to detail, and extreme high performance...but wants to pay a WalMart price for it. These folks often treat their equipment like a replaceable commodity and are very high maintenance with replacement and repair. I don't negotiate price and if you think my prices are too high then they are. I don't negotiate delivery timeframes and if it takes too long for you that is fine. I am definitely not the rod builder for you and you may not be a good candidate for custom rods period. I could make a compelling argument that if price is the primary driver of your purchasing process than custom rods are NOT for you. But it can be painful to be that messenger.

The customers I do get tend to appreciate high quality and high performance. They tend appreciate the product more - and take better care of it - because they paid a premium price for it as well. Prestige pricing? Maybe...or maybe appropriate pricing and what the market will bear. I am certainly very satisfied with the market I serve and they are satisfied with my work. Good enough for me.

Hey there Joe.

Sorry ... I didn't see your reply as I was typing mine to the previous responses. Thank you very much for your response. As I got the blank, and some of the components from Utmost (who rock BTW lol) I received their normal discounts on those items. MSRP would have pushed my total materials cost, about $40 higher. I like the idea of the wiggle room. I know when I was doing this build I didn't like the appearance and dimensions of the butt cap and rear grip I had ordered from another of this site's sponsors, It was a great product, it just looked too small because of the diameter of the exposed portion of the blank between the grips.

Your $150 and $175 numbers for labor are about what I thought, too. My skill isn't quite where I want it to be just yet, but it's getting there. I'm still having the occasional problem with small bubbles in my finish. It's always the first two or three wraps that I apply finish to, which makes me think it's a problem with bubbles in the finish prior to putting it on the wraps. I'm going to do a lot of practice wraps before I do my next build. I'll get it ironed out.

Thanks to you and the responses to my questions from other members of this site, Tom included, my knowledge of rod building is much greater than it was before I started this process. I can't thank you, Tom, and the other members enough for all the help they've openly given me. I wouldn't have developed the confidence, or gotten to experience the pleasure of fishing the type of rods I've built recently, without that help.

I couldn't afford rods in that price range. LOL Which is one of the big reasons I took up rod building. The only down fall of learning to build my own rods is ... rod building is like the Lay's potato chip slogan .... you can't build just one.

Thank you Joe, thank you Tom, and thank you to anyone else that has ever helped me in the past, or will help me in the future. You guys are awesome!

This is hands down the best rod building site on the internet. And it's all because of its members.


This place rocks !!!!

Bill .... once again I was typing a response as you were posting yours. First off let me say thank you very much for taking the time to respond. And your way of thinking is not controversial at all. At least not to me.

It was actually a philosophy I developed when I had my carpentry business, and one that I still use to this day when asked to do a side job. I no longer do carpentry. I work in a factory, building custom commercial air handling units. Be that as it may, I couldn't agree more with you about customers wanting custom work at Wal Mart prices.

When I first started my now defunct business, I took those kind of customers to build my referral base. The only problem with that, is that every potential customer that I got referrals for, wanted the same kind of work, with the same kind of pricing. I was working for dollars instead of 10's of dollars. Eventually I started raising my prices, and had a few say no, and a few say yes. Then came the big housing market crash of 08 and everyone and their brother was a carpenter. I couldn't, and wouldn't compete with the prices that some of the "contractors" were bidding, so I folded up shop, eventually landing where I am now.

So as I said, I completely understand where you're coming from. I've been in your shoes so to speak.

Thank you again for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it.

Bill
I call them tire kickers
I have had ones that I spent time sending emails to MANY Showing parts blanks seats colors of thread Maybe 15 or so
Then at the end when I gave them a price it was : I will keep you in mind and have to get back to you :
Now I most of the time just give a short email on price ask a few questions and never here back
If I don't make something on the rod ain't no use building it

Bill - willierods.com

don't forget that the large ROD makers get there supplies at a fair discount , where you an I don't , as we don't turn over that much product
so we can't buy whole sale [ that is business ] so the large ROD makers can make a little more money wholesale = retail [cost]
don't get me wrong that is business , I just wanted to point it out in the amount of money you make on CUSTOM MAKING
a small timer like me it is a favor to the person I think

William Sidney
AK

I always charged at least double the cost of the components. If someone wanted say a fish wrap on the rod that took me 6 hours to do, I would charge accordingly. Fancy wood in the grip, the same, it takes time and effort to turn wood on the lathe. Don't try to compete with factory rods, not possible unless you want to go broke. I once a the lowest price distributor cost on blanks that I bought from one Mfg.. A local outlet could sell completed rods for a little more from the same Mfg. than I could buy the blanks. The reason was that they traded advertising in their news paper and magazine for rods. Charge what the traffic will bear, and show the customer why yours is a better rod.

Bill has a very valid point. In my line of work, we hire plumbers to put toilets in and build them. We were once quoted $300 to put a toilet together and set it. Normally this runs us about $100. The guy was very busy, so he was able to upcharge and be okay when we told him no. Needless to say we did the work ourselves!

When someone asks me how much will a rod cost I generally tell them "As much as you want to spend". Then explain that a reel set can cost $8 or it can cost $58. With that I will ask what do you intend to spend for a custom build fishing rod. Now I know what the market will bear. Then go from there, but at least you have a commitment per say.

Also depending on materials I have taken the price of the rod blank at retail and triple it. That comes out real close to what others have said about your cost plus. Excluding cheapie blanks. Not sure how this works on all types of rods but it is close on Bass and freshwater.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2015 03:36PM by Tom Wewerka.

David,
If you can buy wholesale, a good selling point for the rod would be 2X the cost of materials. You should also be paying yourself at least $20 per hour. If it takes longer, then you should be charging more.

Not many places today where you can hire anyone to do anything for $20 per hour.

That is why many rod shops basically shoot for about a 2 hour total build time on a rod. At that rate, they can have a reasonable profit and turn out decent production quantities of rods.

This implies that you have preshaped and pre drilled rod as well as a reamer that you can use with one pass and have the grip perfectly shaped and centered. This is the basic model that is used by rod factories which make hundreds or thousands of rods per day.

For the big factories, with matched components ready to glue on and rods to wrap, the assembly and completion time is likely in the 90 minute range.

Be safe

A little off subject, but somewhat related, how do you guys figure cost for repairs?Single foot guides,double foot,tip tops,trim bands,single,double,cork reconditioning etc. I recently started repairing rods for some friends,great way to practice and keep your skills sharp, in return they would give me old rods and reels that I would either strip for parts or fix up and donate.now there are some charter captains that want me to service rods for them. Seems to me repairs can certainly become the "bread and butter" of a small shop. In my case just a way to feed my rod building habit.

The issue of RodMaker that mails in a few days has a repair pricing chart sent in by one of the readers. It's at least a good place to start, from which you can adjust based on your location, demand for repair, etc.

....................

If I had to settle on making $20.00 an hour building rods.
I would not waste my time building them

Wow, lots of good replies. Sorry I haven't been able to get back to them sooner. I had a few things come up with my boat, that I had to attend to.

First let me say thank you to everyone that has replied since my last post to this thread. A lot of good things to think about, that's for sure.

Randolph, I hear what you're saying about not trying to compete with the prices of factory rods. I would never try to do such a thing. For one reason, I've only built 5 rods thus far, and I am pretty dang slow when it comes to doing wraps. Not so much on the reduction train guides, but on this last build I used 4.5 mm single foot guides (the smallest guides I've used so far) and wrapping those suckers took me a long time. Part of that was in the way I used to leave the guides on the rod after positioning them with the static load test. Finally I woke up and just started recording their positions from the butt guide on a piece of paper, and positioning each one when I was ready to wrap it.

I used to wrap the butt guide first, and then proceed toward the tip. I'm going to try chaning the order in which I wrap them, too. I'm going to try what I always hear Bill Boettcher suggest, and try wrapping the guide nearest the tip first, and then proceed towards the butt, and see if that helps me get done a little faster. Ultimately the more wraps I do, the faster I'll be. Also, now that I've been positioning guides using static loading, I have noticed something very different about the factory rods I own, and the rods I build. I have at least two more guides on every rod I've built, versus any of the factory rods I own, that are of comparable length, power, and action.

And that is even when the factory rod I own is said to have NGC guide spacing. One of the reasons for at least one more guide than the factory rods I own, is because I'm using smaller guides than the factory rods. Another reason is that I place the guides using the static load method of placement. Factory rods may be placed that way as well, but they may not take it to the extreme that I do. Now I may be costing myself some rod performance with as many guides as I use, but the line follows the curvature of the blank much better on the rods that I have built, verses any factory rod I own.

Tom W. ...... I used to do something similar to what you described when I had my carpentry business. I say similar because instead of trying to find out a "what the market would bear" price, I would try and found out if the people had realistic impressions about what the work they wanted done, would cost. I was amazed at how cheap some people thought something should cost them. I actually had some people tell me I was trying to rip them off, and I hadn't even given them a price, or taken a single measurement. Although usually they were very understanding once I explained to them why I had to ask that question.

Roger .... I wish I could get my total build time down to 2 hours. LOL Heck I wish I could get my guide wrapping time down to two hours? LOL It took me 1 hour from the start of set up, till the time I was done doing guide placement, on my last build. I'll get faster as I build more rods. But I don't build enough of them to get blazing fast, and I never will.

Anyhow, I really appreciate everyone taking the time to respond. You've all given me things to think about. Once again. Thank you one and all !!!

David,
One of the things that really help with speed, when you have built a few more rods is the use of records.

By keeping records, you will have a guide spacing that has worked for you on the last rod that may be the same rod or similar rod.

By, at least starting with that spacing you will be much faster when spacing guides. I just use 1/8th inch wide tape to set up the initial guide spacing. If I am duplicating a previous build, I just put the pieces of tape at the location, which is the top of the guide foot.

Then, I will give the blank some good deep bends, and observe the bend of the rod; as I observe the tape spacing on the rod. It all is well, I put the rod on the wrapper and tape the guides in place, putting the top of the guide foot at the tape location.

Then, I mount a reel, run line through the guides, and tip and triple check the line flow for proper blank loading. If all is well, I begin to wrap. Normally, even on a new rod, this process only takes about 10 minutes. For a repeat blank, it is two or three minutes.

If I am doing a repeat blank for which I have made before, I just put the marks on a piece of cardboard that I keep for this use. I lay the rod on the cardboard, and put the tape on the rod at the marks that I have on the cardboard. Then, on to the tape up of the guides.

I don't use any pens or chalk or markers on the blank, because that is something that has to be removed. But the 1/8th inch tape goes on and off easily - leaving no residue behind.

Be safe