Looking at some carbon graphite grips on your photo page I wonder if these have been proven by the test of time? When did they come on the scene and have there been many reported failures? Are they in widespread use? How heavy is the foam part in actual weight? Sorry for all the questions but want to make sure they are good for use before I dive in.

The foam core/carbon fiber grips were developed by Andy Dear and myself in early 2007. We detailed the process later that same year in a magazine article after a lengthy testing/use process. Since that time many others have made and used the grips, most with exceptional results. Any failures would be few and far between and then perhaps due only to improper construction methods.

Made correctly with the proper density foam for the particular application, they are not at all prone to failure or damage. They're certainly more durable than cork or some of the EVA materials and far more rigid than any other grip I'm aware of, particularly for the weight involved. Generally, with 8lb density foam you can expect a grip that is roughly the same weight as cork. With the 6lb or 4lb variety, they will be less. However, the particular top coat finishing technique employed by the builder will affect the final weight.

The only possible drawback is that while fairly inexpensive to make, they are quite labor intensive.

...................

Mark -
I'm a convert. The only drawback I've noticed is that they do feel a bit colder to the touch in cold conditions. In all other regards, and especially performance (grip, control, sensitivity, weight), they are the best grip material I've found. And until something better comes along, I'm not going back to cork.
Will second Tom on the labor intensive aspect of construction, but it's more that worth it.

I have a scrapped one that I show to people by beating it on the edge of the counter. You have to hit plenty hard to even begin to put a dent in it. Yes, very labor intensive. Riley Rods will sell you some very nice grips. He is listed on the left column.

Bill

Ohio Rod Builders

Canton, Ohio

Before the Carbon fiber grips you are asking about, I used carbon fiber tubing to build rods since 1979 with NO failures.

Since Andy's introduction and Mr. Kirkman's educating me on how to use the material.(The handles you are referring to,) I have use them extensively on tournament rods with absolutely NO failures. I also remove the foam from inside many of the handles, again with NO failures. I have one hollow tubed handle with minor damage on the end. From where I stepped on it. Totally my fault and still works great.

Mr. Yates's comment: "In all other regards, and especially performance (grip, control, sensitivity, weight), they are the best grip material I've found."
Is as accurate stated as possible.

Mark.
All Tom says is true.
However, I would not recommend them as fly grips to be used in saltwater - especially in higher line weights. i.e. 9wts and above.
They are very slippery in salt water and very hard on the casting hand.

I had two personal #10 weights with carbon grips and after one year I ground them off and replaced with cork.
A customer asked me to install a carbon grip on a #9 rod. I tried to talk him out of it but he persisted. It came back to me after 2 months for a cork replacement.

In lighter weights they are probably fine.
Herb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2015 10:49PM by Herb Ladenheim.

I've never once found them to be slippery - in fact just the opposite. You actually have to loosen your grip and move your fingers around to shift your grip. Cork is far more slippery. I wonder what happened to the ones you made/used. Something's not right about this.

As far as being hard on the hand, the first times you use one you'll find that your hand cramps. This is because you are used to having to grasp the grip so hard with other materials. With these far more rigid grips, you need to relax a bit and then all is well. And you'll indeed relax your grip after a few outings. It just takes a little time to get used to. The grips are just so efficient that it takes far less effort to grasp and cast with one.

........................

I have made well over a hundred of these grips of all styles (fly,spin,cast, and etc.) for other builders,not including the ones for my own customers, and have never had anyone say they are slippery. Many of those grips head back east to go on big wt rods for salt or salmon/steelhead. I have many repeat customers who like them for just what Mr. Ladenheim doesn't like them for. I will say you either love them or hate them,but that is usually due to the look not the function.

Tom/Dick,
If people say that they are not slippery as fly rod grips then they are not getting in the surf and getting wet. Yes- when used in a boat in fairly dry conditions - or where one can dry their hands on a towel they can be tolerable.

But in down-and-dirty serious surf (WET) conditions they are slippery. Interestingly freshwater make them "grippier". Not saltwater however.

Tom,
My personal grips came from our friend in Louisiana and the customer's grip came from Riley. I still have a Riley and a LA carbon grip that I use to friction fit to a blank for demoing a blank.
Herb

Tom/Dick,
If people say that they are not slippery as fly rod grips then they are not getting in the surf and getting wet. Yes- when used in a boat in fairly dry conditions - or where one can dry their hands on a towel they can be tolerable.

But in down-and-dirty serious surf (WET) conditions they are slippery. Interestingly freshwater make them "grippier". Not saltwater however.

Tom,
My personal grips came from our friend in Louisiana and the customer's grip came from Riley. I still have a Riley and a LA carbon grip that I use to friction fit to a blank for demoing a blank.
Herb

Prior to beginning rod building myself, I had a couple of rods built using carbon fiber grips. Also, since becoming a builder myself, I've built a number of rods, both spinning and fly using carbon fiber grip material. I fish wading in the surf and from shore and boat as well. On some grips I have a "slick" finish and on others after mounting the sleeve on the form with an undercoat of epoxy I merely used a gloved finger to apply a relatively thin layer of epoxy that leaves more texture to the grip. With the textured grips I make sure to get a good seal between the ends of the grips and the rod blank typically creating a small epoxy ramp. To date, despite very numerous splashings and dunkings while wading the surf I have had no issues with grip deterioration. With the "slick" finish grips I find they become slippery when wet only if I don't make sure I've eliminated all fish slime on my hands after handling a fish. Since I have property adjacent to the surf I spend far more days in the water than the average fisherman so I believe my grips have certainly been put to the test. So far, those rods that I have built for others have not been identified as having any issues with the carbon fiber grips and everyone commnets on how light the rods feel.

One other comment I will throw in is the ability for a builder to utilize the available colors and epoxy colorants to create truly unique builds. Add that to the ability to shape the core of the grip and I would encourage folks to strongly consider adding carbon fiber to their repertoire of techniques.

Sandy,
I live on the beach in FL, fish 5 X a week, and use the surf as my Cape Cod beach testing tank. Wish I had the problem of fish slime. Have to stick with my evaluation of carbon.
Herb

"Slick" and "smooth" aren't the same thing. I hope we aren't interchanging terms.

Where fish slime is the issue, I've found anglers believe it makes any type of grip material slick.

.....................

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The foam core/carbon fiber grips were developed by
> Andy Dear and myself in early 2007. We detailed
> the process later that same year in a magazine
> article after a lengthy testing/use process. Since
> that time many others have made and used the
> grips, most with exceptional results. Any failures
> would be few and far between and then perhaps due
> only to improper construction methods.
>
> Made correctly with the proper density foam for
> the particular application, they are not at all
> prone to failure or damage. They're certainly more
> durable than cork or some of the EVA materials and
> far more rigid than any other grip I'm aware of,
> particularly for the weight involved. Generally,
> with 8lb density foam you can expect a grip that
> is roughly the same weight as cork. With the 6lb
> or 4lb variety, they will be less. However, the
> particular top coat finishing technique employed
> by the builder will affect the final weight.
>
> The only possible drawback is that while fairly
> inexpensive to make, they are quite labor
> intensive.

Is there a link availible showing how to build the grips?
Thanks
John
>
> ...................

Hello John.

Mike from Riley Rods has a video tutorial of how to make them on U-Tube and will sell you everything you need to make your own.

Tight Wraps.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

For what it is worth...durability is no kind of concern. I have one of the original failed grips I built in 2007. It is a RHW fly grip built on 8# density foam with a 1/4" bore. It was laid up with West Systems epoxy and 1.5" Heavy sleeve.

Just for kicks, I drove my wife's Toyota Highlander over it and it did not crush. It is marked up badly, but not broken. I'm not kidding and this is not hyperbole. I do not recommend you do this but I was curious. I'll try to find it and post a picture. But you do not need to worry about durability under normal use. That's the day I switched to 4 and 6 lb density foam and LIGHT sleeve for rods.

I will say this - a top coating of Permagloss makes them MUCH more scratch resistant than any epoxy I have found. I suspect it makes no structural difference but it really helps keep a shine over time.

In my experience this is kind of like green eggs and ham. I get all kinds of opinions from people who have never tried them. I respect Herb's opinion because he has personally fished them. For my part, the only time I find them hard to hold onto is when wading the surf with my hands covered in speckled trout slime (hopefully). For me, any rod is slick with my hands in that state. But a quick rinse of my hands and I'm back to good. But that is my experience. You should try one and see for yourself.

Robert A. Guist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello John.
>
> Mike from Riley Rods has a video tutorial of how
> to make them on U-Tube and will sell you
> everything you need to make your own.
>
> Tight Wraps.

Thanks for the info, will check it out
John