Hi All,

I did my wet layup on a graphite grip last and I used an epoxy that is marketed for use to builds surf boards. I am ready for my top coats now. I usually use the 321 from Riley Rods but I don't have enough left at the moment. May I ask what type of epoxy you guys are using for your top coats?

Should I be concerned about using a different type of epoxy over the one I used for my wet layup?

Thank You,

Chris Tulk

I use West Marine 105 Resin and 207 Hardener............3:1 using syringes.......no issues.........

I don't use epoxy for my top coat. It's too thick and heavy and tends to scratch easily. The better product, in my opinion, is a urethane such as PermaGloss or Lumaseal.

Of course you need to have enough epoxy over the top of the skin to allow you sand it all back down smooth. At that point the urethane goes on top and provides a perfectly water-white clear coating that is thin, lightweight and much, much harder and more abrasion resistant than any epoxy. So epoxy for wet lay out and sealer, but urethane for final top coat.

.................

Hard to answer specifically not knowing exactly what you are using, but I'd recommend at least one more sealer coat of the same epoxy you used for your wet lay up no matter what. This is a variable that has not changed since the original RM article and is what Tom is referring to above when he says you need to have enough epoxy top coat to have something to sand down to smooth.

If it were me, I'd let my wet lay up coat set completely (24 hours) and then clean up ends / edges and any big irregularities with a skew chisel. Clean / true things up but remove as little carbon fiber as possible in doing so. I'd then apply a second coat of the same epoxy. I'd keep it as thin as you can while maintaining complete coverage of the grip. I'd do this no matter what finish coat I planned to use.

After that second coat has set, you can be done if it looks right to you. Or you can add another coat of epoxy. Some sand between these coats (I do) but I am not using your epoxy. So your actual mileage may vary. If you do sand, progressing from 220 down to 600 works really well with both West Systems and RR321. That's all I have used but it should work well for your epoxy as well as long as you let it set completely before sanding. If you are getting globs or gummy material instead of sanding dust it needs to set longer.

You can also sand completely smooth after the second epoxy coat, surface prep with grey scotchbrite, and add a urethane topcoat (like Permagloss). To me this gives the best results. Apply the PG with a foam brush as described in RM and in Tom's video on YouTube. To me, this provides the best finish ESPECIALLY over time. This moisture cure urethane is MUCH tougher than epoxy. Over time this really stands out in the form of resistance to scuffing or scratching. If you have ever tried to sand off a coat of Permagloss on the lathe you know what I mean.

Just keep in mind that the urethane coat is incredibly thin. So, if you have any surface imperfections - even a pinhole - it will show up in your final finish. So make sure you do your prep sanding very carefully. Hope this helps - don't be afraid to stop and reread the RM articles as you work through it. Sometimes a re-read after a little experience makes more sense and has more context. Good luck!

One other thing one has to watch out for when using epoxies is that some of them will blush. This can cause problems with applying your top coat over that. I also use permagloss/lumiseal over the epoxy for my finish. I also sometimes use 3 coats of epoxy to get it perfectley smooth (wet layup + 2 build ups) before top coating.

I have played with different epoxies with carbon grips. I have used 321 from Riley, ProKote, Threadmaster, Flexcoat and urethane. Each one will give you a little different result, but they all will work.

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the tips. I will use the same epoxy for all my coats and the final coat with Permagloss.

Once I open the perma gloss can it be re-sealed and used again?

Thank You,

Chris Tulk

Chris -

Technically it can be, but often - depending on the humidity where you live and in your shop - it can begin to cure in the bottle as soon as you have opened it and introduced moisture. The two solutions that work for me (and thanks to RM and Ralph O'Quinn for these - I did not come up with them) are Bloxygen and the 4 oz paint can trick.

Bloxygen is a commercial product that displaces oxygen (and moisture) from a container. I think it was originally designed to preserve really high end furniture and automotive finishes. But if you hit your bottle of PG with a dose of Bloxygen and then put the lid on, you will be fine. Even if your bottle lid leaks a little air (and they all seem to) the Bloxygen is heavier than oxygen and won't let the air get to your PG. But the stuff is expensive and needs to be handled with care.

The paint can trick is the best I've found and its what I've used for 5 or so years no with no problems. Ralph O'Quinn (PG inventor) came up with this and swore by it. Buy a new, unlined 4 oz paint can. As soon as you get your PG, pour it into the paint can and seal the paint can tightly with a hammer or mallet. When you get ready to use the can, you drill a very small hole near the base of the outside of the can. You can then squeeze the PG you need into a mix cup. You then plug the hole with an eye screw slightly larger in diameter than your hole you drilled. Stop screwing the eye screw in at the end of the threads. Some PG will leak out, but it will set up quickly and 'seal' the hole.

You can then unscrew the plug, dispense some PG, and replace the screw and the PG will not set up in the can. This also works great with Lumaseal. Keep in mind that not all mix cups will withstand the solvents in these Urethane so test first just like you test your foam applicators. Also, it is not recommended that you reuse the can when empty...sort of a one shot deal. So you might order a half dozen cans when you find them.

If you search the paint can trick, you will find lots of posts and maybe even some pics that describe it better than I have here. But it's worth a try. Hope this helps - good luck!

Don't work right out of the PG bottle - pour out what you need into a shot glass or a plastic mixing cup that will withstand the hot solvent in the PG. The less time you've got the main bottle upcapped, the better you'll be.

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For using Lumiseal, once dispensed from the paint can, I use the bottom of a soda can(full) that I cleaned and let dry. I use what I need of the dispensed Lumiseal, and let the rest dry. Right before dispensing more, I remove the Lumiseal from the bottom of the can.

Chris Richer
Iroquois ON

I have done this and it works well
After opening the bottle clean the threads on the top then put the top on I put it on snug not REAL tight and put the bottle on the top of the fridge door Have left them in there for a very long time When I use it again I just let it come to room temp Or even before

Bill - willierods.com

Thanks Tom.

Chris I am not sure I understood? Are you using a full can for the weight so that it doesn't tip?

Thank You,

Chris Tulk

Thanks Tom.

Chris I am not sure I understood? Are you using a full can for the weight so that it doesn't tip?

Thank You,

Chris Tulk

Correct.

Chris Richer
Iroquois ON

Got it!

Do you know the link to the video Tom posted on you tube on how to finish a graphite grip with Permagloss? I can't find it.

[www.youtube.com]

Chris Richer
Iroquois ON

That's the one - Chris beat me to it.

CAUTION: Watching this video has been proven to cause both lathe and workshop envy.

OK
I thought that permagloss being so hot would eat into most any finish Epoxy finish or thread finish if you will
How long is the finish alowed to dry before putting on permagloss

Bill - willierods.com

Bill -

You want to let the epoxy set completely (or at least enough so that it is hard enough to sand without problems) before applying the PG. 24 hours is plenty with both West Systems and RR321..

Someone can help me with the Volume and Issue number but this technique was detailed in a back issue of RM and is definitely worth a read if you are interested. The video is really helpful from a technique standpoint, but the specifics are in the article. Volume 14 #4 maybe? Hope this helps.

Bill

When I mix I can sand the next day even on a lath

But
permagloss is hot I have not tried yet But may mix some and then try after 1 - 2 days
But it has been said here at least a week ???

Bill - willierods.com