I've been reading with interest all the posts about 'locking wraps' for single foot guides.

I'm getting ready to build a couple of spinning rods, and had planned to use single foot guides on them.

Now, I own about forty comercially made spinning rods that have single foot guides on them. Some are over twenty years old. NONE of these rods have any type of 'locking wrap' on the guides. I've used all of these rods pretty hard (I fish mostly for bass, so they really don't get all that much 'hard use' but still....) and NONE ofthese guides has ever slipped, come loose, or broken (unless I stepped on it, but I'm right at 240, so expecting the guides to handle that is a bit out there...), etc..

So, my question is, are the 'locking wraps' really neccessary? I understand that they aren't hard to do, but often 'new and untried' ideas that 'seem good' turn out to have unintended consequences or problems that 'crop up' after a bit of time has passed. (I have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE what these problems may be, but.....).

Anyway, I've always been in the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' camp, so without a compelling reason to 'lock wrap' the single foot guides, I won't do so.

Anyone have one of those compelling reasons?

Thanks.

I've also wondered about this. I personnally have had guides break, but I havn't had a guide slip out of the wrap. When I build a rod, I completely fill the tunnel with finish. I've always assumed that this will lock the guide in. Isn't this a reliable way to build the rod?

Guys it's not all single foot guides that need locking. It's single foot fly guides used in the concept system that you need to lock. These usually #6 ring fly guides come out pretty easy. It's simple to make a couple of wraps past the guide which when finished keeps it from sliding out of the wrap. The high fram single foots do not have this problem. Hope this helps.

Most single foot guides will never cause a problem. But, fishermen who are tough on their gear, or casting rods where single foot guides have been used in a "guides on top" configuration, are often prone to having guides loosen or come out from under the wraps.

A simple "locking" wrap for a single foot guide does not take any longer to make then does a regular guide wrap - the locking aspect of it is just an extension of 3 or 4 wraps that are made past the guide ring leg. Becuase it really doesn't take any more time and is so easy to do, why not utilize such a wrap just to ensure that these guides absolutely can't come loose. After all, custom rods are supposed to take into account these minute details that commercially made rods sometimes overlook.

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Tom,

What you say makes sense. After playing with it this morning on a 'scrap blank', I can't envision any possible 'problems', and as you mention, it is not any extra work.

I was just cocerned that since I'm not what you'd call an 'expert', there might be possible 'problems' that could crop up down the road that I'm not seeing.

Anyway, I think I'll do it just becasue it will add that 'custom touch' to the rods. Like you say, why not? Sounds 'compelling' enough to me.

Thanks for your responses.

Good Luck!

It is also a good sales tool to tell you customers that your adds also feature a special "locking wrap" on all single foot guides. I'm a true believer in substance so I can live with promoting this particular aspect of the "sizzle" sales thing. It really does work, so add it to your sales promotion with confidence.

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Just a note. Different rodbuilders call this extra wrap for 'locking' single foot guides by different names. Here are the ones I've heard:

Safety Wrap

Security Wrap

Locking Wrap

They all refer to the same, and technique may differ. I bet there are other names for this I missed. I call mine the Security Wrap. Whatever rolls off the tongue to impress, I guess. The idea is the same. For sure, a feature you won't find on factory built rods.

Rich

Before I ask this question,I did a search for locking wraps. I didn't find anything that clearly explains this process. Do the locking wraps encircle only the guide foot after the wrap is made up to the point where the foot raises off the blank. In other words after I finish a wrap on a single foot guide, do I then make 2 or 3 wraps around the guide foot only and not the blank. If this is the case, then I would assume I would tuck the end of the thread like I normally do? Sorry for beating this to death. Thanks

Like Richard, I have always heard the term "Security Wrap" used. My understanding is that the builder makes 3-4 wraps past the guide leg after wrapping the foot, as Tom K. stated. This is how I was doing single foot guides prior to my affiliation with Rich Forhan and his Revolver Rods. I now use the Forhan Locking Wrap method.

I will let him explain it in the pages of RodMaker Magazine as I am sure he will use better english then I.

I have found no long term problems with locking wraps and it takes only seconds longer to wrap each guide. For the prices I charge, my customers deserve a bit extra.

Just make your normal wrap but put in your tie-off loop a little later than normal, and when you get the wrap up to the guide leg continue wrapping and wrap 3 or 4 turns on the other side of the guide leg. You just have to use a finger to push the thread past the guide ring and then pack it back after you get past the ring. When you get done it's just a long wrap with the guide sticking up out of it. I know they did a photo essay on it in RodMaker but I don't remember which issue it was. I hope you can understand my written instructions.

I think I got it. So the wrap continues 3-4 turns only on the blank and not the guide foot.

Dwayne, yes that is for the security wrap. The Forhan Locking Wrap is a little different and will be in RodMaker soon.

Prior to learning of the security type of wrap, how many of you that installed single foot guides had a problem with guides coming loose or slipping out?

I think that one of the biggest problems with single foot guides coming loose is the builder, especially factories, do not extend the finish under the foot of the guide which is essentially what you are doing when you have to finish the 3 or 4 wraps that extend past the guide on the security wrap.

I know my repair business was greatly enhanced by the many failures of single foot guides coming out of the wraps, both in commercial and custom made rods.

Biggest problem with epoxy wrap finish is that it does not adhere to the blank very well - you can pop it off with a fingernail in cases. (Another reason why some brands do not make good adhesives.) With the extra wraps on there, it is the thread, bound by the epoxy, that really locks the guide in place.

If we knew for certain that our customers would not jerk a rod out of their rod box, or never catch a guide on anything, we could probably dispense with the security type wrap. But I think custom rod builders are better off building for the worst that can be expected to a rod. It takes only a few seconds and ensures that guides won't come out, even under rough handling.

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That's also good is the idea of the extra bit of epoxy at front (tunnel) of the guide. Something we've always done and never a problem with giudes coming loose.

Why not do the security wrap AND the extra bit of epoxy. double assurance for custom work?

Another consideration of failure I have witnessed on so-called "custom rods" is perhaps something few have seen in their repair businesses. This is rods that instead of thread wrapping to hold the guide, a simple band of black thin tape was applied and then epoxied. A recommended recipe for almost immediate guide failure.

I guess in the hopes of taking shortcuts, the 'rod builder' decided this would work. In the cases of these rods I've had come in to the repair shop, the butt guide was disengaged from the blank with the first cast. I digress from the security wrap idea, but just to bring to attention some things about guide failure from poor technique. Even the extra epoxy at the guide tunnel did not add 'security' or add anything to the reputation of the "rod builder".

Rich

I have seen on some factory model All Star Rods where they used a different type of thread,that some of the single foot guides would actually fall out simply by turning the rod over,not what you would call a good sales feature,for the couple of extra seconds needed for the security wrap Why Not,also makes a good sales point.
John

Redundancy is always a good idea.