Hi guys, yesterday when I asked about using microwave guides I got 14 replies, only one of which dealt directly with the question as asked. Thank you Wes (a little more info would have been welcome however). Jim, Jim, and Dennis I shoud have a Fuji tattoo, I've been using them since Lew Childre was still around and if anyone asks I still say Fuji is #1. I feel that Lew and Doug Hannon were cut from the same cloth, (bless them both). Bill, ya lost me buddy, I know you have experience with microwaves because some of your past posts show that, so if you like them why not say so? I guess I want to be reassured that i can cast 14lb. Trilene XT thru a #2o Microwave ring from a Shimano Symetre 2500 with a 1/4 oz.. weight. I feel I can assemble a very effective guide train for about 1/2 the money of Microwaves, but you must admit they take a lot of the innitial guesswork out of the process. They're pretty precise about the location of the stripper, transition, and choke guide. Since I already have the guide set in question, may I assume I won't be doing any harm in using them? Do they function as advertised? Thanks, Lynn

Lynn -

They work just fine. I have plenty of rods with them ... but with the older MW design (butt and reduction only), prior to American Tackle and the forced set of accompanying guides.
The distance from reel face to butt guide is critical, the distance from butt guide to reduction guide is important, after that ... space the running guides to handle stress properly.
Have at it, you won't be disappointed. They are definitely better than a Cone of Flight system with any frame/ring material.
My answer = Fuji. Had to do with your initial question of "best casting spinning rod possible". That puts me into Titanium frames (weight) and Torzite rings (weight and smoothness).
IMO, weight is absolutely critical (really the lack of) to success with any modern placement strategy ... 27X, NGC, GPS, etc.
Of course, they are also more expensive than Microwave guides, as they very well should be.

Jim -

I see whole heartedly the Microwave Spinning guides The casting never used can not get my head around why
I see a lot of companies adding blanks and such and then selling off some things that many builders use all the time
I see Fuji adding Reverse casting guides ?? I only hope to heaven they don't try to get rid of the Concept guides Alconite love them And a good price Put them on many saltwater rods and no complaints

Bill - willierods.com

Thanks Bill, and I agree with you about the casting guides. To me they are acting to control a situation that does not exist. Kinda like the boss's useless nephew. Lynn

Thanks Jim, this is the type answer I seek. Lynn

In your other post you said "the best casting spinning rod possible" and you also mentioned 1/4oz weight.

14 XT is some strong stiff line for a spinning rod, and it wouldn't even be on my list. Diameter is .016". You can tape the guides on and test cast.

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2014 03:03PM by Chuck Mills.

Chuck, this is the highest rating for the blank and the guides and will probably not be used. I figure if it can cast that decently it will preform perfectly with lesser line weights. For myself, if it's 12lb. or higher it belongs on a casting rod. Thanks Lynn

Lynn, I didn't mean to be flippant with my answer yesterday, it's simply a matter of being all too familiar with the fire you were lighting. The results are always the same. The Microwave fans come a running and then the Fuji guys jump in. The simple fact is that when Microwave runs a comparison with "any other guide system" they always win. When Fuji test the KR Concept against "other guide systems" the KR always wins. It's something you ultimately need to decide for yourself. One thing I am sure of, if you have aspirations of becoming a "master" rod builder the Microwave starts and ends with one solution. ANY other system will help you better understand the complex interaction between line types and behavior; blank power curves and top third actions; reel angles, heights and spool diameters; guide heights and ring sizes; support from well placed runners and ultimately the sweet spot that emerges when you TRULY understand how all these things come together. That working knowledge is available with Fuji, Batson, Pac Bay...heck, even Am Tac. So, by all means, build as many Microwaves as you want, the decision to cap your expertise with a single solution is entirely up to you.

Lynn -
If you have the microwave set tape them on & try them. You'll find that you will very likely have to adjust the distance of the first and first to second (stripper) guides more than once - the remainder can be set effectively with a static deflection test. I'm going to stay out of the fracas regarding other guides / guide train set ups as this was not your question. I will however leave you with a thought or two. You probably will not find a lighter guide that incorporates an inner ring than the new Fuji torzites - how much that matters is each person's opinion and can not be measured as, in my opinion, the person casting the rod plays the most critical role in distance / accuracy. You should consider ring inside diameter if you will be tying leader (fluorocarbon) to running line. I've had to teach several fishermen how to tie knots, how to determine leader lengths (or eliminate knots altogether) after I've built them rods.

Lynn I apologive if I anyway hijacked the other thread. Seemed to be alot of fuji bashing going on without any actual content to back it up. My take on it was that both options are going to result in negligable casting distance differences. At that point when you consider the other factors such weight, ring material, and options then fuji gets the nod. If you change reels or line types alot or already have the guides, then use mw. No bias here, both work very well and result in a great casting rod.

If you take any of the very good guide set up systems, and the guides that go along with them, you're not apt to realize more than a 1% casting distance difference between any of them. So ultimately choosing a guide system or guide type these days is more about other criteria, such as ease of set up, balance, ring material, size/strength/weight, etc.

Any company that is marketing their guides based on casting distance these days is missing the boat.

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If i recall correctly, at one Expo custom builders were asked to build a 6ft 6 in rod with spinning layout and using same line and lure the winner was a Cone Of Flight layout.
makes you think.........

Lou, winner of what?

_______________________________
God Bless, Don Morse

800-516-1750 ext. 1207 / don@americantackle.us

Rod Building..... It's What We Do.

We had a casting contest a few years back at the ICRBE. Chris Linville took overall distance and his rod featured what was roughly a cone of flight set up. Because each person got to cast their own rod, and some can cast a little better than others, this may not prove anything, although it's fair to say that there is very little difference in overall casting distance between any good guide system that has been well implemented. Guide systems need to about more than just distance, and they are. For instance, note the balance difference between a COF and an NGC and most will prefer the latter. And that's just one example.

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I thank all of you guys for your responses,and please don't take the threadjacker comment too seriously, sometimes my humor doesn't read quite as I think it! I usually build for myself and family however in this case i'm building for a fella I only see 2 weeks a year while on our yearly trip to Canada. He saw some of the rods I did recently and asked if I'd build one for him. Other than length and line and lure weight his only requirements were that it have rattlesnake skin in the split grip, and make it snazzy! Well I thought, Microwave are pretty snazzy and if they don't cast worse than the results i usually achieve using "conventional" guides I'll put them on. The rest of determing what "snazzy" looks like to him rests with me. (great!) I should never had said best casting in my original post as that did cause some of the confusion. Also, I don't see myself switching to Mvs for future builds, as I said I've always been a Fuji man and like some ALPS guides as well, and being a cheap !@#% titanium and torzite are way outta my league. Alconie guides and a Sic tip are about as far as i'm willing to go. (sorry Jim). I just didn't want results worse than I'm used to. Again, thank you all. Lynn

I thank all of you guys for your responses,and please don't take the threadjacker comment too seriously, sometimes my humor doesn't read quite as I think it! I usually build for myself and family however in this case i'm building for a fella I only see 2 weeks a year while on our yearly trip to Canada. He saw some of the rods I did recently and asked if I'd build one for him. Other than length and line and lure weight his only requirements were that it have rattlesnake skin in the split grip, and make it snazzy! Well I thought, Microwave are pretty snazzy and if they don't cast worse than the results i usually achieve using "conventional" guides I'll put them on. The rest of determing what "snazzy" looks like to him rests with me. (great!) I should never had said best casting in my original post as that did cause some of the confusion. Also, I don't see myself switching to Mvs for future builds, as I said I've always been a Fuji man and like some ALPS guides as well, and being a cheap !@#% titanium and torzite are way outta my league. Alconie guides and a Sic tip are about as far as i'm willing to go. (sorry Jim). I just didn't want results worse than I'm used to. Again, thank you all. Lynn

Don, just plain distance cast with the same lure and same line.
Prize was bragging rights.

i think it was 3/8th oz rubber lure and one of the berkley mono products as line.
I even think i recall somebody bought it off of him for a ridculous amount of $$ to go away and duplicate.

If pure distance in feet from point of casting is your only criteria you can get there many ways.

I use them as my stripper since the first castaway ones came out and am looking forward to new ones like:
higher frame 30's and bigger ones for casting style rods( i do NOT use level winds as it kills my cast).
maybe a double foot 45 or 50?
Built with lighter TI or Monel frame and insert more like a minima to make them lighter?

The only place a cost-benefit analysis is likely to take place is in the minds of mass-production rod builders. Custom rod builders must satisfy intangible benefits. For some clients nothing short of a "Minnie Pearl"-type price tag or its equivalent will be satisfactory. I suspect most custom rod-builders, even professionals, value personal satisfaction over profit.

Lynn

I just got back from a Canadian walleye fishing trip Saturday, and while I was there I fished a few rods that I built. One of these rods had the Microwave guide set on it and a couple of my other rods used the 27x setup with Fuji alconite spin guides and both guide setups fished very very well. Was the Microwave setup the best? Maybe! Would I use the Microwaves again? Definitely! But I would not retire The 27x method or the Fuji alconite Y guides either.

Rog