Does anyone have any experience or an opinion on using micro guides on an 11 foot rod? I've used them on a 9 foot rod and it casts great. I spoke to someone at Mudhole and he said it could be a problem if the reel is large and sits far off the blank. It won't line up correctly with the first guide. He said testing showed you shouldn't really go larger than about a 4000 size spinning reel with these. If the reel is aligned properly with the first guide does anyone know of any other potential issues with this set up?

If the reel is properly aligned with the fist guide, I don't see any issues. I am not a surf rod guy but it makes sense.

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Super Tight Lines......Don

With an 11 ft surf rod you may be using a shock leader. If this is the case you could have difficulty passing the shockleader knot through the small guides.

Don Becker

Best bet is always to use the correct sized guides, which will be the smallest that will easily pass your line and any connections.

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Peter are you maybe talking about MICROWAVE rather than MICRO guides?
When you mention size 4000 reels that would make sense.
Micro guides(like all guides) are limited by line size and knot size not so much reel size.
Microwaves( the regular ones) work best between a 1500 and 3000 reel size depending on brand reel.
For a 4000 through 6000 reel you may want to use the castaway microwave from lance at Swampland.

I will hopefully start working on my 11 ' surf rod build soon as well and I have decided to use the Castaway microwave from Swampland as my first guide to get the line down quickly
from a Shimano 6000 reel.

The only issue I have is with the tip top for a 7.5 tip the smallest ring is a 8 that I can find so it does not make sense to me to go down to a smaller size guide ring for the transition and runners.
Would having the 6 or 7 ring size guides for the runners really make a better performing rod when the tip top is a size 8 ring?

I plan on using a tapered shock leader going from 70 lbs down to 20 to have a small shock knot.

Smallest running guides I use are 10mm. If using braid do you use a shock leader?

David i like a size 8 ring tip with size 7 ceramic running guides: gets that knot plus a bit of junegrass over the tip.

This is true on most my rods even with size 3 minima guides i will use a 4 or 5 tip.

You could also try size 6 minima fly guides for running guides with that castaway plus the 8 tip and may just be surprised how very well that works out.
Or a minima tip, they are very light........ or just wrap a regular ceramic fly guide there for a tip.
Most times if a knot is going to hang its at the tip on retrieve or choke guide on the cast.

You need to see what works for you where you fish: experiment a little. Those minimas are very inexpensive.

Yes smaller lighter running guides makes a difference to me despite a bigger tip.

Dave: Regardless of the type of knot you use to connect 70# shock leader to your line you will end up with a fairly large obstruction which must pass easily through your guides. If the knot hangs up on the way in you will have a tough time landing a fish. If the fish bolts close to shore and the knot hangs up going out you will lose the fish. Do yourself a favor and actually test how well your shock leader knot will pass through the smallest guide you plan to use. I didn't do this once and ended up cutting the smallest guides off my finished rod, then wrapping on five or six larger guides and refinishing the rod.

Thanks for the input Lou, yeah I am going to do some experimenting before I do the wraps. For now my plan is to use the Castaway microwave down to a size 8 A frame to 7 choke and runners in the American Tackle Atlas fly frame in black finish with nanolite ring with a size 8 tip top. Or use the Pac Bay Minima Match Tich 8 as the transition to size 6 or 7 minimas for choke and runners to an 8 tip top. To much decisions LOL!

Phil I really don't want that to happen that is why I am going to use the tapered leader that starts at 20 lbs which tied to my 15 lb running line should be a really small knot.

Would a little bit of epoxy over the shock knot help with the smoothness?

Peter, As I understand it, the use of micro guides are to lessen the weight on the tip section of a rod. For freshwater rods this makes sense. On a surf rod where you may be casting baits in the 2 Oz to 8 Oz range, the weight of the guides are minimal compared to your baits. As a result you will not be able to see any increase in casting distance. As others mentioned, the passage of knots through the guides becomes an important factor--particularly if you are using a shock leader.

Mike Blomme

I've toyed around with using small guides on surf rods, but have found that there's an issue with diminishing returns: any potential weight savings from smaller guides gets lost in the shuffle, get "gobbled up" by the greater overall weight of these bigger rod and reel outfits. Say that you're building a very typical surf rod, say a 10-foot, 1-4 ounce plugging rod: the blank weighs 8 oz., and you're going to slap a reel that weighs a pound and a half on it. Do you think that a weight reduction of a few ounces is going to be noticeable on an outfit that weighs over 2 pounds?

I've found that the answer to this question is, emphatically, "No," that the weight savings with the lighter guides is not noticeable on surf rods. And micro guides can give you problems in the surf: seaweed, especially the fine, stringy kind (what they call "mung" up on the Cape) can render a rod with small guides inoperative -- the mung gets stuck in the small rings, and you're left with the angling equivalent of a blown head gasket.

This is a nice idea, and it's one that I support, theoretically, but my experiences have shown that micro guides are not the best choice for surf rods. Depending on the specs of the individual rod, I generally use guides somewhere in the 6-10 size class as the smallest guides on any given rod.

Another consideration is to take the shockleader and put some curls and kinks in it. Cast the "real life" shock leader through the small guides and evaluate the performance. It could get expensive to replace the tapered shockleader frequently. Your actual fishing conditions will be the determining factor.

Don

Don Becker

Listen to Chris !!

Do not put Micro's on Just to have them on your rod -- If you can not fish it Cause the knots do not pass -- What use is it

Build for performance - then go and make it look pretty

Bill - willierods.com

bill b. - "Build for performance - then go and make it look pretty." What a great suggestion! I'm going to write it down and use it. And I probably won't give you credit.

bill b. - "Build for performance - then go and make it look pretty." What a great suggestion! I'm going to write it down and use it. And I probably won't give you credit.

bill b. - "Build for performance - then go and make it look pretty." What a great suggestion! I'm going to write it down and use it. And I probably won't give you credit.

Phil

I got a paten on that I will not have to sue you will I LOL

Thanks for the laugh

Bill - willierods.com

For surf rods I use at least a size 8 running guide and tip, and will often use a size 10.
No problems with casting or knots with this setup.

Be safe

I normally use a short leader and am not concerned about it going through the guides. Just the braid going through.
Dave, I built a 9 foot rod this way and the tip is larger than the runners and I have no issue with it.
Chris and Bill, I am not building for show I want this thing to cast a mile. I agree that the weight of the guides may be negligible with respect to the overall rod weight but I do think lightening the top part of he rod might allow you to load the rod better with a little bit lighter of a lure then with heavier guides. I also thought that the purpose of these smaller guides was not only to lighten the rod but to choke the line rapidly as it uncoils from the reel and get it to run straight up the rod as opposed to come of flight.