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Stand up rod?
Posted by: Steve (---.mobile1.al.home.com)
Date: June 28, 2001 09:16AM
I need help on how to build a stand up rod. I need to build one in the 50-130 class and 6' long. Do I look for a solid fiberglass blankwhat? I
have no idea what to do as far as assemblying the butt section either. Does the blank go all the way through the blank or is this where a ferrule and collet nuts come into play. If someone can direct me to a turtotorial it would be helpful also. The guy who wants it is fishing for amberjack, sow snapper, and maybe yellowfin tune (I think he said yellowfin). When assemblying the butt section and reelseat do you use Rod Bond or maybe a 5 ton quick set-up epoxy?
I know on the bass and light saltwater rods I build Rod Bond holds up fine. Thought maybe the Rod Bond might not hold up to that much pressure.
Re: Stand up rod?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (---.dialinx.net)
Date: June 28, 2001 09:34AM
You have a lot of questions! Best to arm yourself with plenty of information before diving in. Stand-up rods of the weight range you mention are meant for heavy duty use and must be sturdily constructed. I' ll try to steer you in the right direction and am sure others will chime in.
The 6' length is a good all-around stand-up rod length. Any longer and the fish has a tremendous leverage advantage. Much shorter and the rod is somewhat limited in reach, although many of the most powerful stand-up rods are built in the 5'6" length.
I like the Loomis Hybrid blanks for this application. Others rave about the Calstar or Seeker models. All are tubular which give you the most power for the weight. They are all quite durable and will do the job.
With a total 6' length, storage and transportation isn't much of a problem. For that reason most stand-up rods are built "straight-through" style. Some sort of hard "slick-butt" is usually found on the butt, fronted by a HD aluminum seat. I have used the heavy Fuji graphite/nylon boat rods seats with great success however. Gimball can be either aluminum or the graphite/nylon type. Stay away from regular plastic, however.
Great care must be taken when determining butt length. You need enough length so that the rod will fully seat in any particular rod holder where it may be used. You can arrive at quite a bit of length options by choosing the appropriate gimbal, slick-butt and by mounting the seat in either uplocking or downlocking style. (There are some other considerations on seat mounting direction too. Much too involved to get into here. I guess we need to start on an article on these type rods.)
You need a front grip that allows the angler to reach up the rod as far as necessary. Will he be using a belt? How far down on his torso will it rest? These things need to taken into consideration.
Rod Bond will do the job. So will most of the 2 part slow cure epoxies. Make sure you create a good fit between components. Slop cannot be corrected by pouring in extra epoxy.
As this discussion evolves, as I am sure it will, we can get into more specifics. Don't be too worried that this is getting much too involved. But there are quite a few things to think about if you wish to build the best rod possible.
Re: Stand up rod?
Posted by: Tom (---.public.svc.webtv.net)
Date: June 28, 2001 09:42AM
Is there any such blank as a 50-130? Without going to my catalogs I seem to think there are 50# class blanks and there are 80-130 blanks.
This may sound like hair splitting but there are big differences in the components used to build each.
For instance, an 80# or 130# reel will not fit into a 50# reel seat. The foot is too wide.
The Unibutt used, if you use a one, is different.
The guides used on 50# and 130# are way different.
And the list goes on.
Check with your customer and see what he really wants. For the fish you listed it sounds like a 50# Stand-up would be plenty of rod. I can't imagine a 80-130 on Amberjack or Yellowfin. But, to each his own.
Prhaps some of the Aussie boys will give you the real story. Mr. Kirkman, what do you think?
Re: Stand up rod?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (---.dialinx.net)
Date: June 28, 2001 09:52AM
I think stand-up rods were designed to allow an angler to go head to head with a fish. His strength against that of the fish's. The configuration of a stand-up rod allows him or her to do this. But there are limitations.
I know that huge fish weighing many hundreds of pounds have been taken on stout stand-up gear of 130lb to unlimited range. But the average fishermen has no business in that arena. Once the fish is bigger and stronger than you, a regular trolling rod used in a chair is the way to go.
For most guys, stand-up tackle in the 50lb range is approaching the limit of what is needed. Some are able to utilize 80lb gear on the really big stuff, but not many. Keep in mind as you go up the scale to bigger line and bigger fish that it really boils down to a tug of war. You're not strapped in and you are using a line that does not break easily. This is rarely a problem on most of the species we go after, but I would hate to be connected to a 130lb stand-up rig with a 400 pound tuna on the other end!
Re: Stand up rod?
Posted by: Petro Chem (---.powerinter.net)
Date: June 28, 2001 11:09AM
I build a lot of these every year. Tom Kirkman is on the money with his replies, and I'll add on to what he said.
Let's start with blanks. You have the choice of E-Glass or glass/graphite construction. E-glass blanks typically have thicker walls than the composite blanks and are typically chosen for their durability. I'm not saying composite blanks are not durable- don't get me wrong on that.... My personal preference for the composite rods is for bait fishing where I have to hold the rod all day since they are noticeably lighter in weight.
Some good 6 ft blanks would be Calstar or Seeker 6460xxh, 660xxh in E-glass (same part # for both manu's) or in composite: Seeker CTSF60xxh & Calstar 760H. All are 6 ft and rated 50-130#. All great blanks.
I haven't tried the Loomis blanks, though.
If you use an Aftco unibutt, use the UB2S or UB2SC (that one's curved). They will fit Penn/Shimano 50 or 80 class reels. A little tighter fit for the 80 size reels, though, but they fit.
You will need to cut the blank if you use a Unibutt.
Slick butts work very nicely, too- and at a lower cost. No cutting required.
If you choose to go "full rollers" for the guides, the Aftco heavy duty's will suit your needs perfectly. You can use the Wind-On series as well if you want greater knot clearance, but the HD's work great for most applications.
On a 6 ft blank usually six guides is the norm, but do your static deflection test to see for sure. Have someone hold the rod after you tape on the guides and manually deflect the tip with your hand until the rod is loaded heavily. Tug gently on the line with your other hand to check blank/line clearance.
Regarding fit of rod to angler- I always say "better fit- shorter fight". Have the angler present and do a "mock-up" where the handle components are free to be moved on the blank (before you glue!!!). Have the angler put on his/her harness and put the desired reel in the reelseat. The angler should be able to: reach and crank the reel without fully straightening the cranking arm- the angler's arm should be extended, but not hyperextended at the farthest point in the cranking circle. This leaves a little in reserve in case of strap slippage and also allows the most power from the angler. When you find that spot- that's where the reelseat goes, make a mark so it can be glued there later. Oh, BTW- I normally start with the rod angle at 45 deg (1:30) for starters. The foregrip length can be determined by having the angler fully extend the arm and grab the blank as high up as can be reached. That's where the fore grip ends. Rear grip length is determined by the reelseat's location.
Steve, there's a lot here and in the previous replies given by Mr. Kirkman. Hopefully it helps you out a bit.
Tight lines and red decks!
Re: Stand up rod?
Posted by: Bill O (---.z216112040.bos-ma.dsl.cnc.net)
Date: June 28, 2001 11:34AM
As far as blanks go check out the Lamiglass blanks. I have been using their glass blanks for NE stand up rods for sharks/ tuna. As Tom has stated I have also been using the Fuji HD reel seats and have been very happy with them. Ive used Aftco or Fuji SIC guides with good results. Dont foget to use a Tuna Block ahead of the RS so the grip does not get destroyed.
Slick butts perform great and are easy to work with.
Lamiglas has a Graphite HD boat blank that I am putting together for myself. Its a 80lb rated blank GBT781XH. Should be fun. The glass version Ive used is SU784E. Ive used mostly Lamiglass up here in new Engalnd so icant weigh in on the Loomis or other blanks.
Im sure the gentleman from Lami can give some of his input as far as blank specs.
Word of caution again
Date: June 28, 2001 05:04PM
Whether you are building this rod for yourself or someone else, be advised that unless you are extremely experienced you better stick with no more than a 50# outfit.
Standup fishing with 80 and up tackle is dangerous once you are hooked in to the harness. If you happen to be unlucky enough to have a reel lock up on you, and you don't have a line cutter or a person standing by, you are screwed. You can generally break 50# but 80 and above is a different matter.
If you have the opportunity, take a trip with a good captain that specializes in standup fishing. Let him show you the ropes before you decide to build your rig.
Re: Good Point
Posted by: Petro Chem (---.nas3-mcl.interaccess.com)
Date: June 28, 2001 05:48PM
Mike, you raise a good point there.
Having a reel lock up, while clipped in, would absolutely be disastrous if you were using heavy line- especially if you were in a boat with low gunwales.... and a hearty "Thank You" to the guy who decided to put "S" clips on drop straps. At least you can get free of the rod easily! Still wouldn't want it to happen, though....
On the other hand, I don't think stand up fishing is inherently dangerous, either. I figure as long as the angler is able to physically maintain balance against the drag pressure they'll be (barring any unforseen mechanical glitches) okay most of the time.
But, yeah- a trip with a good captain who is familiar with the technique would be a great way to go.
Re: Word of caution again
Posted by: TEA (---.public.svc.webtv.net)
Date: June 28, 2001 06:04PM
What a great thread this was. More hard facts and useful was offered than in any one thread I can remember ever reading.
Some of the very best in the craft freely gave info that would take you years to to discover on your own. Good, solid,practical "How To" stuff that will serve you well if you find yourself needing to build heavy stuff.
I wish you guys would get going on Tips for blank selection, guide selection, etc. for building 7' saltwater "Flats" rods for Spec Trout, Red Drum, and Flounder. I could use any advice I could get.
Thanks again for a great thread.
Re: Word of caution again
Posted by: Stuart Mackenzie (---.ozemail.com.au)
Date: June 28, 2001 07:45PM
Steve, there is no doubt you have been given good advice ''BUT''.
Australia is the land of stand up fishing every one in this country seems to do it. I have developed my own range of short-lever blanks ''not for sale'' to maxamise leverage into the anglers favoure. 6 feet is way to long for this size line it will kill you after a short while and yes that extra 6 inches makes all the difference. I build god knows how many short strokers and levers every year as well i do heavy tackle stand up just about evry week with most fish averaging 700pnd,blue and black marlin of the goldand sunshine coast in Queensland Australia. I have built and used 6 foot rods in your configerations and hated it so i went back to my own set up which was 5'2 as a straight through and with a uni butt the blank is 3'5'' this will give the most out of the rod. I fyou are going to use roller guides which i advise you do then the Aftco H/D are fine. They will except a 600pnd wind on leader with no real problem. Fish 50pnd you whont need 80 that i can assure you. I have used my 50pnd rods on marlin that have weighed 800pnd landed in in under 1 hour so 400pnd tuna whont be that hard. Use the slow curing glues that set rock hard,i have tryed the rod bond and had trouble it may be OK now but i would prefure a slow curring hard setting glue. Always over build your rods as if it where going be the fish fight from @#$%& you dont wont things letting go half way through the battle. And there are very real dangers in fishing 80 and 130. My mate almost got pulled out of the boat when he lost his balance i grabed him as he was in mid air going over the side. One other mate of mine lost his finger because he palming the spoole with his hand and because he was running 45pnd of drag his finger got wedged in the spoole and the fram finger departed from rest of hand in a big way. So dont kid your self take stand up fishing very seriously think short think big and tough practise on your stance and balancing as this will aid you in the boat.
Re: TEA's question
Posted by: Steve (---.akzo-nobel.com)
Date: June 28, 2001 08:19PM
Start another thread with more information about how you are fishing for these fish. Like, with live bait, jigs, under a cork or on the bottom with a weight. Give us some more info and we can give you a little more precise answer or suggestion. Cause I sure do love going after the fish you talked about, especially the specks. I'll be glad to tell you what I do and help you try to come up with the right blank. I personally would use a Graphite-USA. MAN! These are some great blanks!
A safety tip!
Date: June 28, 2001 09:13PM
Get one of those plastic evelope openers. Drill a hole in it. Take a piece of mono and make a necklace out of the opener. Make the necklace long enough to reach in front of your reel with your arms stretched out all the way in front of you.
If you get pulled over you "simply" LOL reach for the opener and cut the line.
You can tuck the opener in your britches to keep it out of the way
Date: June 28, 2001 09:16PM
Get KNEE PADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!