I'm about to start my first carbon fiber-skinned project and it's going to be a split grip spinning rod with the butt knob carbon fiber-skinned. Anyone have suggestions on how to finish this knob off at the rear/bottom? I'd like it to be a minimalist kind of thing, no big black knobs. I've thought of just gathering the skin material at the center and epoxying it, not sure if that will work at all. Or cleanly cutting off the knob and adding a patch of the carbon fiber skin to the exposed end. A small, thin, soft/black disc mounted on a shaft would be ideal, similar to the Mudhole ones. I don't want the colors they offer, however, and would like it plain without silver or other trim. ????

Just found some small rubber bumpers in auto parts store ads that might work, I'm a little suspicious of their ozone resistance.

If you take the carbon skin around and down as close to the mandrel as possible, you might be able to just use a push-in button similar to what many automobiles use for fastening door and trim panels to the framework.

Andy Dear was a fan of just pushing the skin end into the grip bore which completely eliminates any grip show-through and would work perfectly with one of these trim fasteners.

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Michael,

Take a look at Strubel's butt tacks. They have them in polished silver or black nickel finish. I have a few of the silver ones, and they are quite nice. The black nickel ones should give you the look you are going for. They come in a few OD's from 5/8"-7/8".

Joe

Thanks, guys, good input. The way I do my cork butt knobs leaves a mandril hole in the cork and I've mixed epoxy with the turnings from the butt knob with good success. No one has ever mentioned the almost indistinguishable "plug." So I'm inclined to first try Andy's way first. I'll bet with good epoxy finishing it would be pretty clean without the plug, then plug if necessary after trying the former. Having not done one before I wasn't sure whether there would be any skin end to use. I expect that to do this, when I am applying the skin, it is necessary for me to already have taken off anything of the core past the knob rear/bottom surface?

Joe, the butt tacks are very handsome, but if I add a tack/bumper, I'd like to do a soft one. And, I wasn't considering over $8 to plug the end:-) Thanks for the idea.

I did something I think like what you are looking for on a fighting butt for a fly rod. here's what I did and remember I'm no expert.
I mounted the foam core on the mandrel after reaming the bore out to the correct size. I shimmed the bore/mandrel difference with some masking tape.
I then pulled the carbon fiber sleeve over the foam and tied down the area at the bottom with a really fine zip tie.
then I pushed the entire sleeve and foam core down so that the zip tie was slightly buried in the hole.
then pulled the sleeve tight and tied and finished off as usual.
when it was all finished I pulled it off the mandrel and using an x-acto knife and some small wire cutters removed the zip tie and cleaned out the hole.
then i just glued in a basic butt tack.
it looks seamless.
in fact after I glued in the butt tack I gave it all another coat of clear coat so it was all the same finish.

hope this makes sense.

Makes sense, Gary, thanks, sounds like what I'm trying to do. Mick

I do these frequently, and use the black panel fastners used in autos. They are available in various sizes, both outside diameter and plug size. After installing an additional coat of epoxy and they almost disappear.

I should add that I left a flat spot on the end about the dia. Of the butt cap so it would sit flat.

Michael,

I know they aren't cheap. I got mine for a couple dollars on a closeout sale ;), well worth it at that price.

If you are happy with the look of your tie off, you could always cut an EVA plug to go inside the butt of the rod.

Joe

Lots of good ideas here. If I am going that clean minimalist route, I like the rubber butt plugs from Riley Rods or Mudhole. They are like a tapered rubber coin with a stem. You order them based on stem diameter (to fit the diamter of your blank or grip). You can also cut off the stem and just glue them in place if need be Just mind that you clean them up a bit before you use them. Some come out of the mold clean but some have some extra along the seams that is easily cleaned up with scissors or some 400 grit sand paper.

A little experimentation will go a long way with helping you find what works. The good news is that the carbon fiber sleeve is a few dollars a FOOT and the foam is about the same. So, for $10 in materials you could make 3 or 4 and try different techniques. If you find something you like, please take some pics and post about it. I would love to see what you come up with.

One other thought for your consideration. I have been making carbon grips pretty much exclusively for a few years now and seem to have learned a lot of lessons the hard way. Not sure how many you have made and used, but if this is your first you may be surprised at how different they feel (in a lot of ways). One of the ways they are different is that they are HARD. Obvious I know but to me this matters when you consider how you finish the butt ends.

I realize this is extremely subjective, but IMO a carbon fiber butt with no knob or cap on the end is uncomfortable. If this is really a rod where you will use that fighting butt and stick it in your gut, you may find that a minimalist butt end that is flat or has corners feels like a gimbal with no cover digging into you under load. And if it doesn't feel that way in the beginning, it may after a full day of fishing...if you are lucky.

Actual mileage mayl vary, but you might mess around with it some and make sure it feels okay in use before you Rod Bond it on there forever. Good luck!

Thanks for your help/comments, Bill. So far I've made ZERO carbon fiber grips. I do understand the importance of a good smooth shape on the grip and butt knob.

I will use small ramps of the material coming off the reel seat. I've done a similar thing for years with what amounts to unskinned ramps finished with epoxy, which makes them hard. I think my grips are very stylish and the most comfortable I've found. I will use size 17 pipe style reel seat. On the butt knob I've turned them from cork and really like the smooth shape I've come to use, but this carbon skinned knob will be all new to me. Can you explain why a smooth butt knob with no cap is uncomfortable? Is it because it lacks the grip of rubber against your tummy? If I find the right soft cap, that will make it easier than trying to finish the end smooth. I have not found the stemmed rubber butt plugs from either Riley or Mudhole, can you steer me toward them? What is the diameter that you are using?

I am going to stop at an auto parts store tomorrow and see what I can find.

photo below is one of mine, this one a size 18 seat. The finish on the ramps is thread wrap epoxy, and it of course is hard. I've done the unskinned ramps for about 4-5 years now with no problems of denting, breaking, scratching, etc, only some yellowing of the epoxy on white or ivory ramps. The ramps are made from reel seat shims and are very fragile until coated; then they perform perfectly.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

thanks again, Mick

Hey Michael -

Here are the stemmed plugs:

[www.mudhole.com]

Capt. Mike has them as well but he has a lot of stuff that is not up on his website. You have to email him and ask.

I may not have been clear with what I was saying before I am talking about finishing the very butt end...not the ends that butt to the reel seat. A butt end with no cap or cushion is what is uncomfortable to me. The smooth butt end of CF with no cap is uncomfortable because it digs into my gut when fighting fish...it's like being jabbed with a pool cue. I think it probably is made worse by the lack of grip / traction and the fact that it wants to move around but it's just hard. Your epoxy ramps look great but a hard epoxy ramp is not digging into your gut. Even on that rod you have a composite cork butt cap on the terminal end which is much more comfortable.

And keep in mind - I am talking about fighting big fish where you actually stick the rod into your gut (or crotch) and put some heat on them. I do with this with Kingfish, small tuna, sharks, jacks etc. with my split grip CF handled spinning rods. Shouldn't make much difference on a light freshwater spinner. Sorry if I muddied the waters!

Email me if you have questions or still can't find the plugs. Good luck!

Bill

Thanks, not sure how I missed the plugs. I went to an auto shop and found some plastic and rubber plugs, the rubber 1/2 in diameter, the plastic about 3/4. I don't get into the kind of battles with salt water fish you're talking about, so doubt if even a plainly finished end will be a problem. But I'll probably use one or the other of the plugs I found, if not I'll order the bigger dia ones from Mudhole.

The rod I'm building is a salmon/steelhead rod, long and sort of soft, so I think that might make the issue less important than on a high powered rod.

Agreed - you will be fine. Your biggest problem may be getting the rod to balance. When you go with a split grip and carbon fiber at that, they get LIGHT. I am having trouble getting longer rods to balance but that is a good problem to have.

Would love to see pics once you finish - thanks!

Bill

I usually don't worry as much about balance as making rods light and getting the ergonomics right for the type of fishing-with a salmon/steelhead rod I think the grip area can be longer than on some rods since I don't go from low to high tip as much which can cause snagging on the clothing. We'll see, and will try to remember to post. May not get it done until well into the fall-have some others to finish first. thanks for your help.

Here is the final product of the butt knob discussed above. I used a rubber bumper from an auto parts store, cut it thinner, and applied it to the carbon fiber skinned knob finished to my favorite shape for butt knobs (the shape also is similar to the ramps coming off the reel seat). I am pleased with the result based on my objectives of having a simple, clean, attractive end on the skinned butt knob. Especially pleased with the whole project of the knob and two ramps skinned in carbon fiber on my first carbon fiber skin project. I'll be doing more.

There are two photos of the same knob, here's one:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Michael -

The butt grip looks great - really nice job and a great finish.

I posted a photo for you of the Mudhole butt plugs. I'm not sure who makes them - probalby AmTak. Anyway, they have a taper and will definitely be sleeker than what you used. You will just have to look and see if that is more what you are after.

The carbon fiber work is top notch, though. Nice job.

Bill

Thanks, Bill. There is one spot where there is a defect, but I put it on the bottom. It looks like possibly there was air in the job or separation. It is a small, like 1/4 inch area that looks lighter than the normal. The process was easier than I thought it would be, and now having done it once I can see where I will do the geometry a little different the next time to facilitate the wet apply and clamping. I did see the Mudhole plugs, but I didn't want to wait until I had enough to order from them to make sense. It turned out that I needed a pretty small diameter head in order to flush up to the back of the knob. If I were to make the back of it more flat out to a larger diameter I could flush up a larger diameter plug which I have, and it is a little more elegant in appearance. The rounded back, however, should be very comfortable.