I realize SIC guides are the best out there, but how much better are they compared to these alconite guides. Is there that much of a difference.

I'll answer this as an experienced fisherman, (and a novice rodbuilder). In my opinion, guides mean very little (comparing like types- single foot to single foot, etc.) at least as it relates to line or guide wear, casting and in most cases weight. It seems the manufacturers have exceeded our ability to see any real differences.

Certainly the advent of ceramic guide rings and lighter weight stamped guides were a breakthrough but for my money, a Hardaloy-type guide is all you need. The spacing and ring size are far more important.

SIC are great guides. Hardloys are okay, but the rings are noticeably less slick and smooth than the SIC's. The Alconites really close the gap! Rings feel, by hand anyway, nearly as slick and smooth as SIC's. If I was Fuji, I'd dump all the Hardloy models and replace them with Alconite rings in the same frames.

Only problem I see is that where Hardloy didn't really compete with the SIC models, the Alconites sure do.

I'm certainly no authority SIC vs HARDALOY or ALCONITE but it might be a problem with HARDALOY or ALCONITE if one used some the the newer so called superlines. I always use SIC tips and have never had a problem. Does anybody have any thoughts on superlines and guide wear?

I think the misconception between superlines and HArdaloy stems from when teh original Spiderline picked up dirt, sand, grime and hacksawed therough the Hardaloy guides. The newer lines do not groove Hardaloy.

As for SIC vs. Alco vs. Hardaloy - If you have a hard running fish taking a lot of drag, SIC is probably worthteh money. I cannot comment on Alconite in this situation. HArdaloy do not dissapate heat well enough to risk using in this situation. For "normal" fishing conditions, where line isn't peeling off the drag (bottom fishing) Hardaloy is fne. SIC top, if it makes you feel better, it's only a few bucks more.

I have replaced several Hardloy guides & tops that were grooved. I have never replaced an SIC guide because of grooving. Perhaps this is due to the sheer volume of Hardloy out there vs. other type ceramic guides. I never see Alconite on any rods except those built by custom builders - I've never had any problem with Alconite & use them on most rods I build. The chrome Alconites have a great lustrous plating on them (unlike the dull chrome on Hardloy) & I really like the deep black finish on the black framed Alconites with the black ring. In comparing performance of Hardloy vs. SIC I have built identical fly rods except for guide type & the SIC guides seem to shoot line a little better. It's more of a "feel" than anything measurable but the line seems to slide through the guides better. (Perhaps this is only a figment of my imagination since the SIC's cost about $70.00 & the Hardloys were about $10.00)

How about Zirconium?? I am told that it is 95% as hard as SiC, just as smooth, and it is 25% as expensive. I think that it's thermal conductivity must be about the same as well. Frankly, I have never had any problems with Hardloy, or Pacific Bay's or Batson Industries equivalents, except for the occasional ceramic that comes out of the ring about equally often on any of them. However, the best value now seems to me to be Batson's Zirconium guides. They are much less expensive than SiC and to my taste more attractive. The new blue ones I think are very attractive.
I have to admit that I have not been using the Zirconium guides very long and so I do not know how they will stand up over time but I suspect that they will stand up just fine.
The price that Fuji charges the custom rod builder versis what they charge the large rod builders also rubs me the wrong way. The difference is very, very large.

The Forecast TiCH ceramics are VERY nice guides.I think they are definately worth a look or two.Price-wise they come inbetween the Fugi Alconites and the SIC so it's another nice alternative to the custom rod builder.The finishing of the guide is quite attractive and they seem very good quality.The guides are also easy to file and prep.They seem quite slick and are whisper quite during casting(of a flyrod),which I like.I will definately be using more of them in the near future.Can't wait to try out the blue ones.I am also looking forward to trying some of the holographic TiCH ceramics offered by American Tackle.Very cool custom look for a rod.

Another factor in guide wear vs. superlines in the past was that most of the original superlines were made with Kevlar. Very durable material but also abrasive. The new superlines are made with polyethelyne. Milk jug plastic that is naturally "waxy". Wear is non-existant. Except for foreign particles.

The Alconite guides are a great guide. The price is also really attractive. I don't think anyone will really know for quite some time yet if the durability is truely there. They haven't been out on rods, numbers of rods, for long enough.

I, personally, put on more SiC that Alconite. Mostly because if I'm buying a $150 blank I'd like to have as nice of guides on it. You don't wear KMart shoes with an Armani suit do you? Yes, that's a bit of an overstatement but you get my point.

The TiCH guides do look good but I've experienced some rusting around the guide ring in saltwater. No problems with rods used exclusively in fresh water. Also surface rust on the TiCH wire single-foot fly guides in salt water. I avoid on fly rods that might be used in salt.

Dick,
What were the conditions on the Hardloys that were grooved. Was this fresh or saltwater, BIG fish or small? I have been telling customers that Hardloy's have been holding up with the superlines.
This is in the venue of freshwater spin and baitcasting for fis like bass, walleye, and musky. I suggest the use of SIC for trolling freshwater with superlines. Any details that you can give me about the Hardloys failing would be a big help.
Thanks,
Buzz Butters

thanks for the replies that is what I was looking for

I am new to alconite but will use alot more of it in the future. I only use sic guides if they will be used with braided super lines. So far none of my rods have come back to me, except one loose reelseat and several broken guides and tips. No grooves,etc. I have repaired factory rods with grooves aplenty. hardloy is good but alconite is lighter, smoother and is my favorite so far.I haven't used or even seen zirconium so I have no comment on it. Ralph Jones

Ralph,
You ought to give the Zirconium guides a try. I think they represent the best value on guides and they are very attractive. The blue ones are particularly attractive if you have a blue blank or are wrapping with blue or complimentory color. I have been using some of the new holographic tape, in blue and red, as trim with the blue Zirconium guides and it really is striking.

I will agree with Mike Ballard on Fugi dumping hardloy guides and replaceing them with alconites . I will also add ....... dump sic guides and replace with cermets . Move everything up a notch .
I think heavy frame cermet guides can replace rollor guides in most salt water applications .