i would like to buy a power wrapper and basically i have 3 choices
1. pacbay/ amtak
2. alps
3. cpw by anglersworkshop

i want to know what the difference is between the pacbay/amtak and the anglers workshop CPW.
which is better of the 3 choices.

Ridge,
I have experience with the American Tackle/Pac Bay (AT/PC), the Custom Power Wrap, and the Renzetti. I own a CPW and a Renzetti and our high school outdoors club owns a American Tackle. I have no experience with ALPS. Both the CPW and AT will "power wrap" guides and signature sections just fine. The current models may have had upgrades since I purchased mine a number of years ago. Foot control speed for the motor very important both for wrapping and turning. No matter how many upright/stands they send you, you are going to need another one or two. Thread carriage design and movement down the lathe bed is better on the CPW but both work well if you keep the lathe bed clean. I have turned down EVA, cork, and burl cork grips on these lathes and they both work well. If you try to turn down the square block burl cork for larger grips (like musky rods) the American Tackle tends to jump around a bit. I have found the CPW to work better. If you are going to turn down grips you MUST have a tool rest. Even if you only use a rasp to remove material and then sand paper or sanding screen to shape and finish it will be very difficult to get a grip, especially foregrip perfectly centered on the blank without the use of a tool rest. CPW tool rest is OK, lots of futzing around to move it and set it up. I am speaking of course about gluing up cork rings right onto the blank and turning down the grips right on the rod. I have used mandrels with these lathes also but prefer to build the grip right on the blank. The CPW seems to be more of a heavy duty with its lathe bed.

AT/PC has a switch where you can switch the belt and the lathe/chuck now becomes a dryer. The CPW will sell you a dryer attached for another $100.00 or so. If you need specific questions answered that I didn't cover feel free to email me direct at rodmaker@dotnet.com

Buzz

is the CPW better than the pacbay with the upgraded chuck or the alps chuck?
thank you.

The CPW uses a Taig Lathe chuck, which is quite a good piece of equipment. I haven't had the chance to use the upgraded chucks on the other machines so I can't really speak to how good they are, but no doubt they're better than the older nylon chuck that was originally supplied on some of those machines.

...............

I own and use :

PacBay power wrapper (roughly $280)

American Tackle power wrapper (roughly $295)

Angler's Workshop CPW (roughly $480)

Renzetti (roughly $1,200 - with accessories)


No matter which of the first two you purchase I highly recommend purchasing the ALPS chuck (roughly $140), Forget the PacBay upgrade chuck.

The Batson / ALPS appears to be very much like the PacBay / American Tackle - except you can purchase the ALPS chuck as a package deal - which will push the price to about what the first two will cost with the add-on chuck upgrade. I noticed that the latest version of the ALPS now includes a set screw to keep the jaws firmly locked. Another improvement.. One other thing I like about the Batson machine is the thread carriage which will accommodate larger (4oz) spools of thread. Because I purchased my AT & PB lathes years ago I have the older model stand up spool carriage - the one that will accomodate 4oz spools - the new side-mounted carriage simply will not.

The CPW that I have has the Taig chuck and it is comparable to the ALPS add-on. The CPW is different because the chuck is not a direct drive set up like the AT / PB / Batson machines.

The Renzetti that I have actually gets very little use. It's an extremely well built machine - but I change threads often and I don't like the thread carriage on the Renzetti for quick thread changes (and I often use large 4oz and larger spools of basic colors). However it is the heaviest, smoothest running of all the rod wrapping lathes I have.

Ridge
I have the American Tackle power wrapper and have been very pleased with it. Just recently I upgaded the chuck and I am glad I waited to do so. I put an ALPS Chuck on the AT as it fit right on with minor rework. It is a beautiful piece of equipment and has a couple of features I like.

The Alps I believe, is a stronger and better made chuck than the one offered from PB/AT. It also has a three size shieve on it , which when using it as a dryer allows you to match the rpm's to the project at hand.This is not available on the PB/AT version. It is a pleasure to build rods using this combination.

Tom

I have seen the CPW in action at many outwrappers shops and IMO for the money they are very nice units. I had a Pacbay when I started out and it worked but wish I would have just bought a Renzetti or CPW from the get go. Not sure about the CPW but at least with a Renzetti if you go to sell it you won't lose your butt on it. I would think the CPW would hold value as well!!

the consensus is that the CPW is better than a pacbay with an upgraded chuck?
i've read on another forum that the pacbay is not dead center so when you spin it the rod wiggles.
is this true on the CPW as well?

All such machines are designed to have the chuck mounted on center. Occasionally a bad one may slip through, but none should be this way.

.................

I just looked at the CPW wrapper that's being offered (mine is an older version that I bought second-hand). Mine has a true lathe chuck the one pictured doesn't seem to have the same chuck but rather one with three lock down wing nuts.. Ask them. If it has the three wing nuts pictured go with the ALPS - because you can purchase it with the latest chuck and have it drop shipped as a package deal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2012 08:36PM by Ken Preston.

As Mr. Kirkman suggested - lathe chucks - whether on a rod wrapper or on a lathe, need to have the chuck run true.

A couple of issues that can happen with lathes and wrappers.
You can have a head stock with threads that don't aren't true on the shaft, or the threads on the chuck itself may not be true.

But, if both are machined correctly, the chuck will run true with little to 0 run out in use.

One chuck that is of excellent quality, and of a reasonable price is the chuck that is manufactured by Taig:

[www.taigtools.com]

[www.taigtools.com]

So, if you do have a wrapper with a chuck that is not working for you; one of these may be of possible help to you.

Roger

I Just bought a slightly used Anglers workshop lathe from a fellow rodmaker member, and found that the motor turned clockwise, instead of CW, and that the archaic thread carriges were mounted on the front of the lathe bed instead of behind. I have always wrapped with the thread coming at me instead of going away from me. I am going to get some 1/2" plexiglass and other components and make a carriage that works for me, rather than learn to wrap all over again. I already bought a new motor that turns CCW, and installed it, so I can use the lathe for turning cork handles the way I have always done. Instead of having an adjustible belt from the motor to the head, it has a transfer station inbetween! no way to change power or tension. Not good! The only way to change speed is by your pressure on the foot pedal. Not good! With the motor, transfer staition, and head stock all in line, you loose at least a foot of lathe bed. Not good for turning or wrapping longer rods. I will make this work, but it is not a lathe that I would buy new. Many others are better.

Randolph,
Actually, it would be quite simple to take the motor, transfer station and head stock and mount it on another aluminum channel, and then just bolt the two channels together to get back your lost lathe bed distance.

I have made all of my own power wrappers, and simply have a few different length lathe beds to work on longer rods. Normally I use the my standard 10 foot bed, but during the ice rod season to make more room on my bench, I go down to a 5 foot bench. The 5 foot wrapper is plenty long for the ice rods, and then I can put my drum dryer on the end of the bench for the times that I am drying a dozen rods at a time.

Anything that has ever been made can be modified.

You have a pretty simple thing to modify, if you chose to do it.

Good luck
Roger

Randolph,
Here is an example of the rod rests that I made for use on my full length rod lathe. I use these robust rests when I am spinning a full length rod at 3600 rpm and turning the grip on the spinning blank.
I put a double wrap of masking tape at each rest location to keep the skate board bearing rest from marking the blank. For heavy blanks I will only use three of these rests. But for limber and or longer blanks I may go up to 6 rests.

[www.rodbuilding.org]


This is a picture of my newest steady rests that I use on my wrapper lathe. The base is made from a wall mart cutting board. Then, there is a single rear vertical aluminum bar. Then, two horizontal aluminum bars with robber lined rollers on them. Again, the rollers are skate board bearings with flat O rings on the bearings. These rests do not require any protection on the blank since they do not mark the blank.

The main thing that I like about these single rear post - steady rests, is that there is no vertical support in front. This means that it is very easy to get very close and under the steady rest when wrapping a guide that has been positioned very close to the steady rests. I will often have my guides only an inch or so away from the steady rests, if I am working on a very fine tipped limber ultra light or ice rod blank.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Again, I think that my price to make these steady rests - including the rollers and O rings was about $20 for 7 of them. Basically two bars of aluminum from the surplus aluminum store. A cutting board, and 2- dozen skate board bearings. The nice thing about buying skate board bearings for rod rests, is that you can get very very high quality bearings for very very little money - since there are so many many many skate board wheels and wheel and bearing suppliers in the world.

I normally buy the bearings in 4 dozen quantities so the bearings are very inexpensive in these quantities.

p.s.
As you do, I have always and will remain wrapping with the thread coming from the back of the lathe. I always have the blank rotating counter clockwise, unless I make a mistake that I need to back up for. Or, when I apply finish. I normally use my power wrapper to apply finish since it is so convenient and I can start and stop the rod at the touch of a toe and spin it very quickly if needed. But when I apply finish, I want the rod to rotate up and away from me which means that I am then having the rod rotate clockwise.

As I have mentioned before, I use DC gear motors and variable voltage, reversible polarity power supplies to drive the gear motors. Thus, I have instant stop, start, excellent under 1 rpm control, and the ability to reverse direction at the flip of a switch.
Highly recommend the use of such a power system for any power wrapper.

Good luck
Roger



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2012 11:33PM by roger wilson.