Just about ready to start and put the epoxy finish on my third rod and i would like to get a better finish than the previous rods.I am hoping
to improve on each rod and i feel that the binding and fit is superior to the last ones thanks to some tips from members here.

Was reading a post from Lorenzo and there was some excellent information there that i am taking on board.From what i can gather using
the best tools is a start so out go my disposable brushes and plastic cups maybe Billy can suggest what they can be useful for.So i will
be buying a couple of good quality brushes and a shot glass to mix in and already have some aluminium mixing trays.Is a spatula better
for using to mix with opposed to a stirring stick and if so why ? And i have a wrapper/dryer so what speed is the best to apply the finish at
i have three options. Is it best to start at the slowest speed till i get better.Also i do not have a flame of any sort i have just been relying on a
steady hand and gravity will this improve my finish quality.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this and maybe some of the more experienced builders could put a post together of dos
and donts similiar to the ten commandments of finishing for us newbies and have it stickied.

Ray Balmforth
Figtree
NSW
Australia

[www.rodbuilding.org]

[www.rodbuilding.org]

These should help.

.................

Hi Ray,
You need to find a system that works for you and stick with it. I use a 100ml laboratory beaker for mixing and I've got a spare if you want it. A mixer needs to fit into the bottom corners of whatever your using so you get a complete mix. You can shape a spatula to fit whatever your using or make one from a bit of stainless round. A motorised mixer will give you a lot less bubbles, but make sure you read Tom's library article as I had a few problems with the one I bought. You can also do some testing on a piece of scrap blank with varios methods and see what works for you. I find 10 rpm is a good speed for drying but a lot of guys put it on going a lot quicker as that makes it easier to get a nice square end and make sure you've got a hand rest as that will keep your hand a lot steadier. You may also find it easier to get the finish on under the guide eye with the rod stopped and a small brush is good for that on the small guides. You will get better as you go but don't over complcate it. The KISS method is always the best.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2012 10:19PM by Col Chaseling.

I think the best advice about finish work I received was DON'T STRESS about it and once it's applied DON'T MESS WITH IT and just let it do it's thing.

That said, I find I get the best results applying with the rod rotating pretty quick just not so fast centrifugal force throws the finish off. I finish on my rod lathe and I have a Flex-Coat slip clutch
I use on a second drier so I can easily stop the rotating rod to check for bubbles & fish-eyes.

The guys that use a spatula instead of a brush say they will never go back to a brush but I just haven't got the nack and still use a brush. (the cheap ones too!) I should say the Flex-Coat brushes and NOT the cheap craft/paint brushes. I've never had any bristles come off a Flex-Coat brush but I HAVE lost them from cheap junky craft brushes.

I don't use a powered epoxy mixer (yet) and still have the habit of creating bubbles when I stir the mix in those plastic cups. Far fewer bubbles created when I mix in a shot glass but I really don't worry about bubbles in the mix as they pretty much disperse when I apply it at speed and thinner than I used to in the beginning.

Under power or rotating by hand make sure the rod is DEAD LEVEL after the finish is applied.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

The Col is right. What works for me may not work very well for someone else & vise/versa. (like the spatula & mixer for me)

apply fast / set slow / KISS

a trick I use to get crisp straight epoxy lines is to take a coffee filter a cut some strips, fold the strips with a sharp crease then soak with alcohol. With the rod rotating (fast or slow) I hit the epoxy edge with the strip and CUT a nice clean epoxy edge. On a thick edge I might have to pull the strip across the rod and wick up any excess or it will kinda build up.

also, since the Flex-Coat brushes don't have tiny pointed tips to wick off the epoxy that can climb up the guide feet I make tiny little paper "wickers". I do have some nice EXPENSIVE sable brushes & cleaner but ya know about what they say about "old habits" lol

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Don't buy expensive brushes, I got a pack of 15 flat brushes for $8 in the craft shop. They ocme in widths of 1/8" up to 1", I thin them out and trim any stray fibers. I cut the handle so they fit into teh bottl eof U40 Brush cleaner, and I make sur eto clean teh paint/finish off them befo reI pu thtem into that bottle. I have had the same brushes for 4 years, hundreds of rods. I can't get used to the spatula.

Hi Ray,
I'm also with Billy on the spatula, that's why you need to find something that works for you. Spotlight has got a good selection of brushes that won't break the bank, lots of other stuff in there that can be used for rodbuilding so it's not just a ladies shop!!

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

Thanks for the replies so far guys as always excellent information.I know for you experienced builders you are probably seeing the same old
questions again and again so i appreciate you answering them hope i can do the same for someone else one day.Cheers for the offer of the beaker
Col will go and get some shot glasses and test a few out and the ones i dont like will use for mixing.

What are your thoughts on having a flame is it necessary for a better finish.I know the answer maybe in Toms links but havent had time to sit
down and read them yet.

Ray Balmforth
Figtree
NSW
Australia

Wow! these guys said it all, Like Raymond said "Don't mess with it let it do its stuff", That was my problem , at first and always ended up with some epoxy job that didn't look right to me, experience is always the best teacher, at least for me it was, and the help from Rodbuilding .org. was really a great help.Ray just keep with this sight and keep building and i know you will get better at each rod. Tight lines, and hav a good one!

Wow! these guys said it all, Like Raymond said "Don't mess with it let it do its stuff", That was my problem , at first and always ended up with some epoxy job that didn't look right to me, experience is always the best teacher, at least for me it was, and the help from Rodbuilding .org. was really a great help.Ray just keep with this sight and keep building and i know you will get better at each rod. Tight lines, and hav a good one!

Hi Ray,
The beaker is always available, so you can have one the next time your here. They're a lot larger than a shot glass and help with bubble dispersal. Some aluminium foil will do similar and can prolong the pot life a bit, although that's not a problem this time of year. The flame isn't a necessity as I built a lot without it and got ok results. Helps with bubbles and reduces the viscosity which can help the levelling if you get a problem. The stuff is designed to self level and will if you don't mess with it. Get it on as quick as your able, check the wraps and do any required touch ups, then leave it alone. The odd micro bubble is hardly noticeable and anyone that says they don't get they don't get them is either very good or telling a fib. Larger bubbles can be removed with a tooth pick or by blowing through a straw but that is where the torch comes into it's own.
Ray's first couple where good enough, but he will improve quickly and will be turning out very good ones in the near future.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

Flame? I use a low wattage (60W) spot light from my recessed kitchen lights in an automotive trouble light with the cage removed. Point it at the area that you want to heat and it does just that. I put my hand behind the rod to feel how hot it's getting, (you just want it warm - too hot, it will drip) but with only 60w there's not too much danger of overheating like if you were use a 150w driveway light, that'll make the epoxy smoke and turn to foam. I seldom use it anymore but if I need it, it's there.

Just to offer a coupe of alternatives, hopefully not to confuse.

I'm one of those spatula guys, although there isn't a ton of difference between a thin, flexible metal spatula and a good stiff brush. I find I can control the edges better with a spatula and I've developed good speed using a spatula, and don't need the coffee filter step to get clean edges. I also apply the finish on the power wrapper, but in "free wheel mode" where I turn the rod by hand. I load the spatula, lower it to the rod and give it one quick spin to apply, then move to the next section of the wrap or the next wrap. After all is on, I just hook up the dryer and let it turn and level. Seems to work for me. Ray's point about making sure the blank is level during drying is key. The finish will run downhill if it isn't level.

Terry

To mix I use a plastic knife shaped with my belt sander to fit the bottom of my mixing cups. I happen to use the cups sold for the powered mixer. I could see using a shot glass and a well shaped plastic knife forever. I will have to keep my eyes open for the right shot glass.

Chuck

Some of us tend to make this harder then we have to by over thinking and/or rushing the project. Take your time, don't put on to much product at one time and you'll be fine.

To eliminate mixing bubbles I put epoxy in the corner of my mixing cup then take a large diameter paintbrush handle (about the diameter of a sharpie) and spin it rather than stir. I'm not comfortable doing a complete set of guides in one mix at room temperature so I'll put the epoxy in the fridge for 30 minutes prior to mixing. That slows down the cure process to where it's comfortable for me. If I'm fumbling around more than normal I'll mix twice and move on. I don't believe aluminum foil slows down the initial cure, it may but not enough to notice.

Phil

A

Jersey, Channel Islands. (U.K.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2012 11:36AM by Steve Mcleod.

As long as i have my alcohol flamed bottle with the little flamed spout - i don't worry about bubbles. I mix my finish in the tin foil cases using a wooden popsicle stick. Then, using a good quality soft brush i'll try and coat as many guides as i can quickly. Next, i heat up the finish a little and remove the excess, then do a few strokes here and there with my brush to smooth things out. Finally, i'll use the lamp again, this time squeezing the bottle and shooting out a flame and hitting the bubbles until they all dissapear, then put the rod in my dryer.

Jersey, Channel Islands. (U.K.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2012 06:13PM by Steve Mcleod.

Ray,
I go to the local deli at the local grocery store and buy the plastic cups that they use for sample foods on their Sat. Morning specials. I can generally get 400 for about $3.
I then buy brushes by the 100. I pay 5-7 cents each for the brushes.

I use my power wrapper to apply finish and apply finish from 0 - 300 rpm. After applying, I will use my heat gun as needed to get a specific guides finish to flow out a bit.

The key is to do the finish application quickly. Apply once and don't go back over the finish. Normally 1-2 minutes per guide should be more than sufficient.

But, if you are just starting, take an old rod or rod blank and do a bunch of practice on the old rod or blank. Perfect your technique on the first 100 guides that you coat and then move on to your new rod builds.

You can always go to the salvation army, or rod donate box at your local fishing store to pick up old rod and or rod blanks for practice at little or no cost.

what raymond said !! get the finish on, get it straight, and get away from it !! if you think you need a little heat use a standard light bulb positioned 6 or 8 inches away from the wrap for a couple of minutes while the rod is turning - then get the heat away. i learned my lesson "flaming" finish -no more torches for me.

rog

Billy Vivona says he uses brushes for many years,Is he leaving them in the rush cleaner between uses? Doesn't this thin the epoxy? Gene