I just started building redfish rods and was wondering if rod balancing is a practice in spinning or bait casting rods and if so what a effective way is.

It is done, but not accepted practice by all. There are kits available where you can add various weights to the butt section and keep them secure. Should be at Mudhole and other sponsors on the left.

Most have gone to using lighter and smaller guides, especially in the tip section to reduce weight. Balancing questions come up when rods are too tip heavy so efforts are made to reduce this. Keep your guides to a minimum and space them properly to reduce tip weight. You'll find less of a need to balance the butt.

Reel placement/rear grip length also plays a role. You can attach the reel and guides to the rod with tape and see where it balances prior to installing all the other components. You can adjust the balance point by moving the reel around. As long as you can keep the rear grip a comfortable length, most rods can be balanced this way.

I'm sure others will have ideas. I'm back to cooking the turkey on the BBQ. :-)

Terry

Ronnie,
Terry is giving you good advice. A couple of comments that I might add are: 1. Any added weight is going to reduce the rods sensitivity. 2. Balancing the rod with added weight is only giving you a static balance and the second that you put the rod in motion inertia will cause the rod to be out of balance again.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2009 12:24AM by Emory Harry.

A fishing pole is a type three lever whose fulcrum is the wrist, elbow, shoulder, or some combination of the three. Adding mass to a lever like this anywhere between the fulcrum and the load - which is at the tip of the rod - increases the inertia which must be overcome every time the rod moves or stops moving. This increased inertia requires more force to overcome it, and the angler must supply this increased force hundreds, if not thousands of times a day.
The aesthetics of static rod balance may be pleasing, but Newton's laws of motion and common sense predict the heavier the weight you repeatedly move the more tired you will become. That goes for fish, too. The heavier the weight of a rod a fish must move to get the angler to notice the less likely the angler is to notice, 'cause fish are too smart to voluntarily tow heavy weights around.

I would tend to agree for almost all techniques. In general adding weight to a rod is just counterproductive. The only time I like it is for two very specific uses. First is a longer frog rod, the blank I use is VERY tip heavy...considering that you basically LAUNCH the bait and then move the frog with mostly the reel I like the balance in my hand. The other specific use is for longer "punching" rods. Basically you drop a VERY heavy jig or plastic bait with a 1oz. sinker very hard through matted vegatiation. Considering that the bait weighs a ton and you arent really working the bait much I also like the balance when working this rod. Yes it weighs more, but it just feels better.

Otherwise I would follow the guidelines above for "balancing a rod.

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

Don't forget any weight on both sides of the fulcrum, even the butt end, must be moved and stopped during each rotation of the rod.

Ronnie,
If you do add balancing weight to the rod - do NOT put weight up the inside of the blank.
Folks that do this, end up placing the weight several inches up the blank in an effort to achieve balance.

Rather, place any added weight either at the extreme butt of the rod, or within 1/2 inch of the extreme butt section of the rod.

When you start adding weight up the inside of the blank, the weight essentially comes forward as it is placed and effectively just makes the rod heavier with little added balancing effects.

Good luck
Roger

It is easy to see here who has experience in building bass technique specific rods and who does not. For many serious tournament anglers you MUST build a rod that balances in a certain position at the start if you are to make them happy. Its easy to make blanket statements about how you should never add weight to a rod, but the fact is that many bass technique specific rods must be balanced. The amount of sensitivity you would lose by adding a quarter ounce of weight in the butt is almost next to nothing. You would sure never notice it. But the high end tournament guy WOULD notice a rod that fights the very technique he is trying to use. Sometimes you do not want to add weight and sometimes you MUST. Not all rods are used by the same people or in the same way. Your type of fishing may not require additional weight for proper balancing but another type of fishing might.

I still don't get it. If I go from an unweighted worm weighing 1/8 oz. to a 3/8 oz. Texas rig I have increased the force which must be applied to move the rod by 1/4 oz. times the length of the rod, since it is a lever. Suppose the rod is just over six feet (76") long and the butt of the rod is 4" behind your hand. How much weight would you have to add to the rod to achieve the same balance and compensate for the additional 1/4 oz load? 72 X 1/4 = 4 X ? The math says 4 1/2 ounces, at least doubling the weight of the rod, for each 1/4 oz. increase in lure weight. To "balance" a 5/8 oz plug would require adding 9 ounces to the butt of the rod. This assumes the hand is the fulcrum of the dynamic lever, but for casting it's probably more accurate to view the elbow as the fulcrum, which would increase the necessary added weight by 25% to over 51/2 ounces for the same "feel."
Simple physics is better understood than human perception, but I can't shake the feeling that "rod balance" is chiefly the creation of tackle marketers.

The only things you can do is tape up the rod go out and cast it. See how it feels. Try a heaver material for the butt handle or longer handle, move the seat back and forth try the lightest guides that will do the job Maybe a longer rod. And if not right TRY adding weight to the butt.

Bill - willierods.com

You are not trying to balance the lure. That will be in the water and will no longer weigh what it did on dry land. You balance the rod to suit the angler and the technique he uses. That may mean neutral balance, it might be butt heavy or even tip heavy. Depends on the technique.

Phil,
When you are fishing, (this is when you need the sensitivity), the wacky worm or other bait is laying in the water or on the bottom.
You are now feeling for the slight tug, the light bite, or the line wobble as the case may be. This is when the absolute perfectly balanced rod is so essential.
You really want the rod to lay on your hand in a loose palm, with no tip or butt droop. Then, when those ultimate light bites occur, you senses will be in tune with the blank to feel the light vibration or tap of the bite.

Whether you achieve this with added weight, butt extension, light and or few guides or whatever, for those situations, the perfect rod balance really helps to achieve maximum fish in the boat.

Take care
Roger

Phil,
Being that I am just a dumb firefighter....I have no idea how the math and physics apply. I do know how a real world fishing situation applies though. I think this discussion board has proved time and time again that simple math doesnt generally ring true with the real world use of a rod.

As roger mentioned the balance isnt important in the casting rod of the rod...it is important in just holding the thing while you move the bait. I think we all get that you cannot definativly balance something while it is in a dynamic state...I don't think any of us are trying to do that.

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

It's not a problem with math or physics - they are what they are. But you have to apply them correctly to what you're trying to do.

I never balance my rods - I build them as light as I possibly can and outside of very long saltwater rods, most end up being close to neutral. But I realize that other techniques used by certain fishermen do require different points of balance. This comes down to giving your customer what he or she needs for the task at hand.

I have found situations where temporary balancing helps. Where I do most of my smallmouth river fishing, it's imperative to keep the rod tip low to the water - right down on it. I'm used to it but I've watched some of my buddies with their rod tips 3 and 4 feet above the water. I've switched some of them to smaller reels, temporarily, so the then tip heavy rods would help them keep their tips held low to the water. Their strike to catch ratio always improves once they do this. Once they get the feel for what needs to be done, they can go back to their regular reels and neutral balance points and manage to keep their rod tips low of their own accord.

.....................

This thread always generates good discussion.

If you are a tournament fisherman and want to designate a rod for a specific bait and presentation, then you should use every tool available, including adding weight to balance the rod and create the feel that the angler can turn strikes into fish in the box. Most of us are better served by managing the tip weight by guide selection, placement and reel placement to achieve good balance.

Terry

Light is right. A light rod that is tip heavy is not going to be as tiresome as a heavy rod that is tip heavy. So even if you don't balance, make sure to try and build the entire rod as light as you possibly can.

Excellent point.

As the years have passed and our components have gotten so much lighter, we're able to build much lighter rods so that a rod still considered "out of balance" is not nearly as tiring or hard to fish with as one considered similarly out of balance a decade or more ago.

...............

A fun discussion. But before bass fishermen with their wacky worms attempt to define themselves as leading authorities on light bites they might try fishing some #18 nymphs upstream. A rig which balances nicely while it's motionless in the hand - and requires the efforts of neither angler or fish to upset this static balance - may not perform in action as well as a lighter rig with less static balance.

Ronnie Edwards Wrote:
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> I just started building redfish rods and was
> wondering if rod balancing is a practice in
> spinning or bait casting rods and if so what a
> effective way is.
I guess we completely answered your question, hahahaha. I'd encourage you to try a build both ways and see what you think. You can then take them both out and try each with the same reel and same techniques.

Robert,
For virtually all rods, if necessary you can go to a hardware store and get a rubber chair leg tip that will fit over the butt of the rod.
If the rubber cap on the butt doesn't balance the rod enough for temporary testing, you can always drop a few quarters into the cab before attaching it to the butt.


Then you can fish it both ways at minimal cost and if necessary can make the balance add permanent

Take care
Roger