Greetings,

I have only wrapped fly rods and I just purchased a St Croix 3S76MLXF thinking it was a casting blank, is there any reason I can't build a spinning blank into a casting blank? It was kind of an impulse buy and I didn't know the model number info, but it will be used for bass, walleye, etc.

Secondly, regardless of spinning or casting, I would like to try a split grip with exotic burl cork rings. The St. Croix web-site says the handle kit is 14.75" in length, 8" butt cork, 2" fore grip. To get the split grip to balance right do I just tape off the dimensions on the blank as given by St Croix, and place the reel seat between the 2" fore-grip and the 8" butt cork and then remove however many rings that I want removed? I am just not sure how to make it all the appropriate length and still balance well. I would like it to be light plus I really like the look of the split grip. I really like the clean examples of casting grips by Bill Stevens at [www.rodbuilding.org] . I would love to do something like this with maybe one cork ring at the top. I am just not sure how to go about starting this. I am sure there is a Rodmaker issue that covers this but I don't have a subscription.

Thanks for your thoughts, advice, and recommendations.

Mike

Mike,

The blank doesn't know what components you put on it.

With regards to the handle, if you build it up as a casting rod, you may want to go to a 9.5" or 10" handle. The St. Croix specs for the spinning configuration are probably for putting the reel seat in an uplocking position. If you lose the foregrip, and leave a similar size section of blank exposed, then you won't affect the balance all that much, while losing weight in the process.

Joe

Just because StCroix recommends a certain handle kit in no way means that they believe it will properly balance that blank, it just means that they believe that that handle kit will fit the best from the standard parts that they have available. You can do a lot better, that is the whole reason for custom rod building. To me the whole concept of changing handle length to “balance” the rod is nonsense, the length of the handle is far to important ergonomically to let something like rod balance get in the way, besides the difference in moving the reel seat up and down a reasonable amount is negligible anyway. Build the handle the length that is most comfortable for you, and do everything possible to limit weight in the build. If you do all of that and still find that the rod is unacceptably tip heavy commit the cardinal sin and add some weight to the butt. I would much rather add a little butt weight than use a rod with a handle that is an uncomfortable length.

On my casting rods that long I like at least a 10.5 handle, and more like 12.5 for myself, (6’4” with long arms). I use 5 rings or 2.5 inches behind the reel seat and 3 rings or 1.5 inches for the butt, plus either a solid composite end ring or one of my balance kits if I feel that the rod will need it, no foregrip.

I very much agree with Mike. The grip length and how it fits meeting your forearm and contributes to correctly fishing the most frequent technique you intend I think is a critical design variable. Balancing is important, but best when balancing the correctly fitting rod imo.

This makes sense. Thanks guys.
One more question...are there benefits to a spinning outfit over a casting or vice versa? Is it just preference or are there performance benefits?
Doing a search for that blank one person even mentioned cutting the butt section down to make it a 7', any other benefit here other than weight?
Thanks again for all your recommendations. It is very helpful.
Mike

I wouldn't cut the blank, it would slow the action and probably take away some of the power. Your going to put more weight on the rod going with those exotic burl split grip pieces than the extra length of the rod would be by many times over. The exotic burl is at least 3 times heavier than the Swampland split grips seen in Bill's photo.
This build would be the perfect time to use some of the mini guides too, it would take some weight off the tip where it does the most good.

Yes this blank would be ideal for micro guides, and I just got done ordering micro tips from Bob so that makes using them even more attractive.

As far as whether to build it as a spinning or casting rod that depends on what type of lures and techniques you are going to be using, and what you are most comfortable with. For most bass and walleye techniques you could reasonably use either spinning or casting, the spinning setup would probably cast light lures better, but it comes down to what you are most comfortable using.

I agree with not cutting off the blank-if you want a shorter rod, get a shorter blank and save this one for another rod. I have a 7 foot bait cast Loomis crankbait rod that is softer than most bait casting rods, feels a lot like a spinning rod. And I love it. Casts like a dream, handles all sizes of fish well. It wouldn't be a good flipping rod or a good rod for snapping lures off weeds, but it is a great crankbait rod. Your blank is 7 foot 6, medium light power, fast action, right?That might make a good bait casting crankbait rod, but it would probably make a better spinning rod.

Regarding spinning vs bait casting, spinning excels when you are using very small, light, lures, and I just cannot get used to jigging with a casting outfit, although many do. Bait casting excels when lures are heavier than about a quarter ounce, and it excels when you are going to be casting for hours and hours. It is easier on the hands and arms, possibly because it shares the loads better than a spinning outfit. It also excels when you want to be able to go from a tight line to freely letting line out instantly. Just hit the button, no need to move a bail. When you are reeling a spining outfit, the whole thing is supported only by one hand with no arm support. Reeling with bait casting can be done with the rod being supported by the forearm as well as the hand. Which should lead you to setting your rod up correctly with that in mind as well as balance.

That is a fairly expensive blank, and it might be a good idea to buy a cheap blank and component set for your first rod and make your mistakes on it. And save this blank for your first spinning rod. As you get into it, you're going to want to have both. I have made lots of rods, but it wasn't until my last one that I think I got everything just right. In any event, have the reel that you plan to use and tape the components together in various places to see what you like the best. Don't just take someone's dimensions and apply them to your blank-fool around with it until you are comfortable that what you are doing makes sense. Are you OK with how to locate and space the guides? IF not, there are a lot of resources on the internet, many right here on this site, that can get you started in the right direction.

Mike,
A couple of thoughts:
The difference between casting and spinning blanks depends on the manufacturer.
In general, if you look at the St. Croix blanks - if you take the rod that has the same markings - i.e. 6'm spinning rod, compared to a 6'm casting rod - -- you will generally find that the casting rod has a bit more power than the spinning rod. It typically will also have a bit hearvier lure rating and possibly line rating.

The other posts are right on. Build the handle to fit your casting style. Also, make it match your arms and comfort level. If you are tall, with long arms, you might want a longer handle. If you have shorter arms, you may want a shorter handle.

The other thing that you can do, is to tape your reel on in the spot where you think that you would like it. Then, take three or 4 of your biggest guides that you are planning for the rod, and tape them in place.
Then, check the balance. Sure, when you add the handle components and glue, you will have a bit of weight in the butt section, but this will still give you a pretty good idea where the balance point is going to be.

If you find that you are very tip heavy - you might find that it would be to your advantage to move the reel a bit forward to better balance the rod.
If you do need to add butt weight - it works very well to use lead tape - of widths - ranging from 1/4 inch - 1 inch - on the outside of the blank - under the butt cap. Using this method, keeps all of your butt weight concentrated at the extreme end of the rod to maximize the balancing effects.

With respect to changing the lengths of the rod - it is really very simple. If you want to keep the sensitivity, and power, and action of the rod - always trim the butt of the rod.
If you look at two or three different blanks offered by the same manufacturer in the same action - you will almost always find that the forward part of the blanks are identical. i.e. the only difference between the longer rod - compared to the shorter rod of the same action is a continuation of the blank taper out to a larger and longer butt section. Therefore, if necessary - it is no big deal to chop this butt to a shorter length if needed.

In the same vein - if you like the action of a blank, but would like the rod longer - simply use a scrap blank section - placed either outside the butt section - or inside the butt section (over or underlapping the current butt by about 3 inches and you will be good to go.
Encase the extended butt section in the handle, and it will be invisible to the user and will work fine. If the blanks is a very light action, with a small diamter butt - it works better to put the butt extension on the outside of the current butt. If you try putting it on the inside, the extension will be so small as to give insufficient strength to the butt section.
Some folks like to adjust the butt length and extension length so that the splice occurs inside the reel seat. This has merit, since the reel seat encases the splice and will give it added strength. However, if the butt section is of adequate size, the extension that is below the reel seat works just fine. Remember, if in doubt - put the extension on the outside of the current butt - and the extension will always stronger than the current butt and the splice will never break.

Take care
Roger

I still think the best option is to keep this rod blank the way it is and build it into a spinning rod. It will be an excellent spinning rod and a very limited casting rod. It is rated for lures 1/8-3/8 and lines 4-10 pounds test. Not ideal for a casting rod.

If you want to start cheap to make your casting rod beginner's mistakes on a $20 blank instead of a $90 blank check out Mudhole.com for their "Custom Builder" blanks, especially the gloss black 1S701L, rated for lures 1/2-1 1/2 and lines 8-12. This would make a very serviceable casting rod that would be able to do much more than the St Croix when built as a casting rod.

After you get that one done, do the St Croix into a spining rod with split grip, burl cork, premium guides, and you will have a spinning rod that would cost about $200 or more, and will be designed for your particular reel and your preferences, with better guide quality, sizing and placement than most factory rods.

Check out the library articles on this site for help on sizing and spacing the guides, as well as handle/grip tips (for both spinning and casting) There are other very good and detailed resources available that can help with all aspects of building a split grip rod. If you really want to get different, check out spiral wrapping casting rods on this site and others.

Micheal Danek,

I have no intentions of offending you, but a couple of your comments confuse me.

Your arguments for the 'reasons' of 'why' the blank should be built up as a spinning blank are exactly the reasons I chose to start building rods. I could not find rods on the shelf that had the appropriate action and power to throw the majority of lures that I typically use. I am much more comfortable with a casting reel, and hence I chose to find a 'spinning rod' blank and build it up as a casting rod. The days that a casting reel require heavy line and lures greater than 1/4oz. are long gone.

I believe the blank referred to would make a very versatile casting rod, after all it is custom rod building. This blank should be able to effectively use with light buzzbaits, open hook jigs (grubs and tubes), light texas rigs and unweighted plastics. About the only thing the rod won't be able to do is horse fish out of heavy cover.

Granted, the line ratings may be a tad light, but I rarely use more than 10lb. line while bass and walleye fishing. I suspect that the line ratings are more of St. Croix's way of anticipating what one might use on the rod when built up as a spinning rod.

I agree that a split grip, no foregrip, and spiral wrapping with micro guides would do this rod some good.

I also should have mentioned in my first post on this thread, that I am a relatively short guy about 5'8", and handles that are much more than 10" or so behind the reel seat tend to get in the way when I layer up in clothing. Hence, my handle length recommendation.

Joe

I have seen advertisements for knives which claim a knife has superior "balance," a claim which makes no sense to me unless the knife is to be thrown. I am also confused by discussions of "balance" in a fishing rod wihthout consideration of the size and weight of the reel which will be attached to the rod, or the weight of the object the rod will usually cast, or the leverage created by the length of the rod.

Is there a certain distance from the hand a rod is supposed to actually balance, or is the concept of rod balance the creation of advertising copywriters?

I have been gone for a few days so I apologize for the delayed response.
Thanks for all the great info, however your posts illustrate one of the great (and also costly) things about custominzing a rod. There are so many options and none are probably wrong, so I guess I will just have to build more. This is what happened when I started on the one and only fly rod I was going to make, that was about 8 rods ago.

No question this would make a great spinning rod, as that is what it was designed for. However, I have several nice spinning rods, which is the reason I bought this one when I thought it was a casting rod. I want another (or different) casting rod. I do fish so bigger gear, but I would love something lighter and longer, as my other casting rod is 6' and medium heavy action. And I also just enjoy fishing casting gear more than spinning.

So casting rod it will be. I think I am going to try the split grip, I will do a little more research on the micro guides, I will absolutely tape everything up and try and be very intentional about my specs. I will not follow the St Croix recs on guide placement as I will clearly be using different sized guides for casting. I will spend some time with the library and see what I can come up with for spacing and sizes.
Thanks for ALL your help!
It is fun just thinking about all my options.
Take care,
Mike

If you have not already done so, you may want to check out spiral winding for this rod. Since it is so limber it may take a lot of guides to keep the line off the rod with conventional winding, especially if you want to use micro guides, and spiral will possibly allow fewer guides. And the rod will be stable when flexed. This seems like an ideal candidate for the spiral guide setup, fewer and smaller guides near the end of a light blank.