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Determining ERN
Posted by: Alex Dziengielewski (---.scana.com)
Date: June 10, 2008 03:09PM

OK... please bear with me. I don't learn well by reading things not in steps or process form.

I'm a little confused on determining ERN. I know this much (correct me if wrong):
1- Secure the rod to a horizontal position (is this where the 10% thing comes in?)
2 - Measure the height of the rod
3 - Determine the length of 1/3 of the rod length
4 - Subtract the 1/3 rod length # from the height of the rod from the floor
5 - Add cents to the bag on the end of the rod

Ok, why do step 4? Is that the deflection? Once the tip is = to (rod height - rod third) using the measuring tape, is that when you count the cents to get the ERN? I think this is where I am confused.

One other part I may have missed in my reading of the articles. I saw how to convert lure weight. Is there a way to figure out suggested fishing line (monofiliment, flourocarbon, braid) when using this on a casting or spinning rod?

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Re: Determining ERN
Posted by: Anonymous User (Moderator)
Date: June 10, 2008 03:45PM

Okay, first off, the suggested line rating is purely subjective and chosen only by the maker of the blank. It's not really related to the blank's power or action, at least not to any great extent (it perhaps should be).

You should support the rod or blank at a point that is no further forward than about 10% of its total length.

You want to deflect the rod a distance that is equal to 1/3rd of its length. So, for a 9 foot fly rod, you want to deflect it a distance of 36 inches. If you know that a level line drawn from the butt, out horizontal to the tip (the tip will droop some, don't worry over that, just use the level line to measure from) is perhaps, say, 50 inches from the floor, then you need to continue adding pennies to the bag until the tip has been deflected by 36 inches, or in other words, until it is 14 inches from the floor (50 - 36 = 14).

I know this is somehow hard to get in your head the way it was written. But it was done that way so that people wouldn't need to acquire any special holding fixtures.



...............

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Re: Determining ERN
Posted by: Alex Dziengielewski (---.scana.com)
Date: June 10, 2008 04:04PM

I think I was confusing myself. Quite simple. Really looking forward to using this. I've got some clearance blanks that I don't have the manf recommendations for, so I decided using the CCS was the way to go. Will start using it on everything now.

Thanks Tom.

I wonder if there is a way to set this up for lines other than fly lines. That would really increase the value of the CC data for non-fly rods. I would think that could be used to improve custom rods even more (if blank manufacturers didn't adopt it).

I'm not versed at all in that type of thing, so at this point I'll rely more on the manf recommendation as a starting point for line size.

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Re: Determining ERN
Posted by: Anonymous User (Moderator)
Date: June 10, 2008 04:56PM

The problem is, line ratings for casting and spinning rods are somewhat arbitrary values. They're not along the same lines as a fly line weight or a lure casting weight range. The rod will never know what line pound test you're using, unless it exceeds the dead lifting or sudden impulse limit of the rod blank (then the blank becomes the weak link in the chain).

...................

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Re: Determining ERN
Posted by: Alex Dziengielewski (---.scana.com)
Date: June 10, 2008 05:24PM

So that would bring us back to the strength of the rod which is determined by a host of factors as discussed in plenty of other threads.

In essence, rating a rod for lure weight is really all you need. Most factory rods rated MH are always about 12 - 20# test anyway. Never really thought about it, but they really are all rated from the factory about the same.

So coudl you say that rating the manf gives is junk. Makes sense if so, because lots of braid far exceeds the rating capacity of most casting/spinning blanks used in freshwater fishing. And fluoro (and braid) has a smaller diameter than the equivalent monofilament. Plus it's not related to guide size, as the micros have proven.

So what's the point of a line rating other than a guide for someone who knonws nothing? Liability? If you used line exceeding specs does it void a warranty?

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Re: Determining ERN
Posted by: Anonymous User (Moderator)
Date: June 10, 2008 05:54PM

Some times exceeding the recommended line rating does indeed void the warranty. Even so, most often the line rating is just a suggestion on what the maker feels would be a good range to use on that particular model.

ERN is rod power, not lure casting weight range. Although the cents needed to determine it can help determine a good casting weight range as well.

...............

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Re: Determining ERN
Posted by: Stan Grace (---.hln-mt.client.bresnan.net)
Date: June 10, 2008 08:15PM

Alex,
Once you are familiar with the CCS method you will find it to be an invaluable tool. It plain and simple gives you objective measurements to make comparisons with and there is no end to its uses. I for one wish that spinning and casting blank users would post results. I'm not interested in the manufacturers individual rating in regard to action and power. While they come close in some instances they are not consistent between manufacturers and objective comparisons are not available. I'm to the point in rod building that I no longer buy a blank unless it has CCS measurements available through the CCS data site or similar sites or I have personally measured the blank. It is well worth your time to become familiar with the benefit available using the CCS.

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"

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Re: Determining ERN
Posted by: Alex Dziengielewski (---.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net)
Date: June 10, 2008 08:50PM

I would post this blank but it's a discontinued model from Bingham. Wasn't one of the AllStars. Plus I want to get a little more confidence in my rating.

AA - about 85 (guessing on a measure over 80)
Lure casting weight range - 3/8 to 3/4

It took 229 cents. Now how do I figure out the ERN? I saw the chart goes up to 173.

I noticed on the data site the very first casting/spinning blank is rated 16+. I could see this being common for some of these stouter blanks.

Also, how would the ERN relate to what I know today as med, MH, heavy today in casting/spinning rods? I know the ERN is more specific and accurate. I know some of this is part of the learning curve I'm fighting.

Stan
I agree that this could be very helpful - once I learn to do it! Thanks for helping me along. I'm kicking myself for not going to the CCS seminar this past Feb. I really wasn't ready for it then though.

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Re: Determining ERN
Posted by: Bill Hanneman (---.240.117.218.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net)
Date: June 11, 2008 01:48PM

Look up my article in RodMaker Volume 10, issue 4. This describes my URRS ( Universal Rod Rating System) which is applicable to all rods of any type. In it, the table of ERN, TP, and RP values have been defined up to 200.

Your 229 cents corresponds to an ERN of just a shade under 20 (ERN 20 = 231 cents).
For those using other weights, 1 cent weighs 2.5 grams.

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Re: Determining ERN
Posted by: Alex Dziengielewski (---.scana.com)
Date: June 11, 2008 03:51PM

Thanks Dr. Hanneman.

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