I posted this in my other thread but thought it may not get looked at. Can I mix .2cc less hardener to extend the pot life of LS or will this cause it to never setup correctly? It takes me longer than the 30-45 minutes to finish a rod, guess I am being too particular or incorrect technique.

Elrod,I wouldn't recomend attempting that,could lead to problems,every one works at their own pace and if you are satisfied with your results at your speed just mix up a second batch and proceed, don't worry about the time just the results.
John

No, please don't try adjusting the mix ratio which the formulator has carefully settled upon. Rod builders who attempt to "custom mix" their finish with various mixing ratios invariably end up with big problems.

If you can't finish a rod in less than 30 minutes then you need to do one of two things; finish the rod in sections - mixing a batch for the butt area and another for the tip area, or learn to do the job more quickly.

I wish I could be there in person to help you speed things up. You should be able to coat a guide wrap in just a matter of a few seconds, coming back later to touch in any dry areas or remove any excess. If you load your brush and hold it above the rod, then lower it to the wrap surface and rotate the rod under it, you should be able to coat a guide wrap in one or two rotations. Use a block of wood behind the rod to rest the heel of your hand on - this will provide a steady hand for getting a crisp edge. Get the guides covered, as well as you can, then come back and spend time touching up. It's easier to do touch-up 30 minutes down the road, than it is to try and completely apply finish to dry wraps with finish that is the consistency of bubble gum.

If you have my book, read the chapter on finishing again - it has some tips that I think will help you speed things up.

It is also possible to work in a very cool area which will entend your pot life somewhat. But a cooler finish is also a "thicker" finish so the trade off may not be attractive to you.

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After mixing do you pour it onto somewhat of a flat surface to spread out before applying?

No, I don't. But it is a good idea to do so. Pouring it out onto a flat surface increases the pot life and allows bubbles to rise to the surface and escape. I am glad you brought this up, Dwayne, it is something I overlooked earlier. Keeping it in a small container or mixing dish will concentrate the exothermic heat and cause it to set up more quickly. Thanks for bringing it up.

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I use ash trays lined with aluminum foil. When the foil is full, pull it out and put more foil in.

These also make good hunting trail markers when nailed to trees for deer hunting.

When you apply the finish to the rod, go put the finish in freezer and when you apply next coat , take the finish out of freezer and let sit about 10 minutes and then apply second coat.. I have done this about 5 years now with no problems what so ever.. Thanks Dave

Dave,
LS Supreme, being a new product, can you confirm that freezing the mixture is acceptable. I know with other brands it may be alright, but what about Supreme from U-40? The products you've used 5 years by this method likely were some other brand, right?

I am wondering about how the exothermic reaction and all is affected, halted, or otherwise alters the product when frozen.

Ralph?? I am still a gringo with the long term use of LS Supreme. Some Chemistry lessons, please.

Rich
Solyrich Custom Rods

Ok I have done it on the old Dura Gloss, now I have froze the New dura Gloss LS 2000 this is the stuff everyone was getting the football affect.. I freeze this, then Neil gave me the new Improved stuff this was the new stuff that showed up at the last Rodguild conclave, I also freeze this..I dont know if the new stuff is forsale yet.. I have been freezing all the Finishes that I have tried, except I have never tried Guderod finish.. I read about freezing finishes in Dale Clemens Book.. I have froze Flex Coat, Crystal Coat, and every batch that Duragloss has come out with.. It takes about 10 minutes to unthaw but then you only got about 10 minutes of pot life. This really helps doing this because on big buttwraps I only have to make 2 batches and I get 4 coats on Buttwrap.. I went all through this on the Rod Guild board... When you mix a batch and put it on rod, just take it to freezer and check it out for yourself.. Thanks Dave

The new stuff is LS Supreme

A two ounce kit of our epoxy rod finishes consists of one ounce of hardener and one ounce of resin. Most kits are supplied with 3cc syringes for measuring. Therefore there are 10, 3cc mixes in each bottle. 3cc of resin and 3cc of hardener for a 6cc mixture, of blended epoxy. This is plenty of resin to complete two 9ft fly rods including butt inscription. The two ounce kit retails for about 7 or 8 bucks, which translates to about .80 cents per 6cc of mixed epoxy, or about a nickel for each of the 18 guides on two 9ft fly rods. And there are characters out there who will try and convince the newbies to mix less quantities like 2cc or even 1cc of each component --- to save money yet.
I personally know of literally hundreds of thankful builders who finally gave up on trying to make smaller quantities work, went to the standard 6cc batch and their long list of troubles were over.
Many a witch hunt has begun and ended with trying to save a penny or two, and mix smaller quantities. So you just have to ask yourself, is it worth all of .80 cents to me for the added insurance that my mixture will be useable and trouble free, or should I save two bits or so and conserve. Its your choice.

I have preached the measure/mix/blend problem loud and long. This is where most of the witch hunts in our rod building begin. Right here at the start of applying our finishes is where the "bad batches", the "to old resins", the "contaminated cups", "too high humidity", "too low humidity" ad infinitum--this is where it all starts. It has been my observation over the years that most of the problems with finishes are because the finisher did not follow proper instructions ---- even though he insists he is, and the biggest single error is trying to mix a batch with much less resin/hardener than is recommended by the manufacturer. The second biggest error is those that insist on measuring with spoons or something other than syringes, and they always claim they have been doing it this way for years and have'nt had any problems. Investigation usually portrays that there are plenty of problems there, but the perpetrator does'nt recognize or understand his own problems.

To Elrod who started this thread, from a manufacturers point of view the answer to your question is a resounding NO. Less hardener will not extend the pot life, but it will extend your problems after cure. There are some epoxy resin systems out there, that are tolerable to uneven mixes (rod bond is one of them) but the LS systems are not, nor are any of our thread finish epoxies. These psuedo experts that give authoritative advice to the contrary are doing a disservice to our industry resulting in more harm than meets the eye. Some of these experts haven't built enough rods to qualify for a boy scout merit badge, yet they come on as the worlds greatest since Casius Clay.LOL Whatever system you are using, stick with the manufacturers recommended mixing ratio's.

Ralph