Hello All-

About two months ago I finally took the plunge and orderd a few pounds of flock, some adhesive, and the air assisted spray gun from Donjer. After reading the RM article on flocking again (several times), reading all the posts regarding flocking on this board, and reading all the comments regarding flocking posted on the photo pages, I was finally ready to roll. Bill Stevens was kind enough to spend some time on the phone with me instructing me how to set up my spray area / collection device and how to avoid most of the common problems first-timers experience.

So, I did a few dry runs with loading and using the gun, collecting the flock, reloading and reusing, etc. I blended and mixed different colors until I got the shades and effects I wanted. I got my air pressure and my technique dialed in and then finally went for it with one full wells fly grip and a split grip / butt for a casting rod. Stirred the adhesive per Donjer's instructions, applied a thick, even coat of adhesive with the foam painters pad (the grips were sealed the previous weekend with cork seal), and then flocked them.

The grips look absolutely fantastic...this is truly an easy technique to employ. I cannot remember ever getting such a good result with any other thing I've tried for the first time (decorative thread wraps, weaves, turning wood inserts, etc.). I even put them in drying motors to turn for the first several hours to avoid the adhesive seepage that some have experienced (thanks again to Bill Stevens). They also feel better than I could have possibly imagined. I am really excited about the possiblities of this technique. BUT...

The only problem is that now - exactly 170 hours since I applied the flock - it is coming off. I can easily brush it off with an Oral-B soft bristle tooth brush or scrape flock off with my thumbnail by simply brushing the same area repeatedly or scraping the area under moderate pressure about 3 or 4 times. The scraping not only removes the flock but also some of the adhesive - enough that I can see a little bit of cork color in places underneath. Obviously, this is not the durability I had expected or was hoping for.

The grips sat for the 170 hours at a regulated temperature between 68 and 75 degrees fahrenheit. Since I built the grips out of cork rings I have culled over the last 9 years - and since I filled the worst pits with a Rod Bond/cork dust paste - I don't think this problem is due to the adhesive or the cork seal interacting with the adhesive used to fill the pits (as has been the case for some using preformed grips). I read Ralph's post about extending the cure time based on temperature, but it would seem that 170 hours at this temperature is more than enough.

I realize pride goeth before the fall, but I have not had a batch of adhesive or finish not set up in 10 years. I really don't think this is operator error...and since it is a one part adhesive it's just about idiot-proof in terms of mixing or measuring mistakes. Do I just need to wait longer or do I have a problem with my technique or a bad batch of adhesive? I appreciate any thoughts. The adhesive is the black color.

If it's going to take longer than a week to set and you have to ream the grips before you flock them, this may not be a feasible technique for me. And that would break my heart because these are the best feeling grips I've ever used and a great use for all my cork rings that have not made the grade over the years. Thanks in advance for any help.

Bill

Hi Bill,
One thought come to mind first, adhesive coat was too thick. Air dry from outside surface inward could cause an interaction on the cork side not to cure properly, these reasons come to mind because of some of my experience with modern automotive paint / primer systems.
other thought was about cork sealer, what kind you used?
I have flocked enough grips to like the system alot. Mine I used alot with no failure. Maybe not enough to find a failure in application
I also think about cross contamination, did you have a filter / water trap in your air line ?
did you ever put something in cork seal ? use gloves handling cork before applying adhesive ?
my train of thought is along the lines of you did something but didn't know it, like never put a rag on to container of solvent , always pour on to the rag.
last to rule out adhesive , apply adhesive but don't flock it. See what happens ?

Dave von Doehren
PRRODS......If man built it , man can fix it.and if man built it man can break it !

The adhesive was not the problem. The cork seal may have been. I use color preserver for sealing the cork - I have a lot of it and it's cheap enough to use for this purpose. I think if you'll use CP instead of the cork seal your problem will be solved.

There is one other possible area your problem may stem from - preformed/shaped cork is often coated with "stuff" to make it look a bit nicer. For this reason, all preformed or preshaped cork should be quickly surface sanded prior to the sealing operation. 150 to 220 grit is fine for this operation.

These are the steps I follow and I can guarantee you that you won't get any of the flocking to come off my grips - you'll destroy the grip before you can remove any of the flocking.

..........

Bill - I think we discussed the alternate procedure where no cork seal was used. On some preformed corks I have to omit the Cork Seal and apply more than one coat of adhesive to get a bond. I would not have thought this was important on rings that you glued up. I thought the filler on the preformed grips was causing the problem.

Please do a simple test. Take a couple of rings and do not apply cork seal. Just apply a coat of adhesive and let it cure for two days. Some of the adhesive will be soaked up in pores in cork. You may notice some pulling away of spots on the surface that may have to be touched up with a second coat of adhesive. When all the surface gets hard and glossy do a light 320 sand and apply a final coat of adhesive and flock. The final cure before installation should take 5 days.

Lets ride this bronc bareback if necessary to solve the problem you are having. I had a problem with the stuff completely tearing off - pulling loose from the cork substrate until I figured out what was causing it. Flocking does take more time but if you get a stock of grips done ahead of time they are well worth the effort.

Have you ever tried to put True Oil on top of Cork Seal? The same thing will happen - it will stay gummy for a couple of weeks in some cases - not all the time but some - there is a reaction of some sort taking place with the mineral spirits base of the adhesive.

Gon Fishn



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2006 09:22PM by Bill Stevens.

I sincerely appreciate the responses and I will try them all. l'll try CP vs. cork seal and I will try to seal the cork with multiple coats of adhesive. It's worth trying to figure out what I like best anyway. I would have done it from the beginning except these were not preformed grips...they were rings I assembled. I didn't think anything else would be necessary.

But the thing that still has me worried is that NONE of the adhesive set up hard enough to hold the flock under duress and that includes the adhesive that I deliberately applied to the fiberglass scrap blank I was using as a mandrel / holder for the grips I was flocking. I did that just to see what would happen and how the blank would look / feel after flocking (inspired by the RM comments about flocking a section of blank near the ferrule of multi-piece rods). It didn't set up either so maybe it's not the cork seal or the filler. Then again, I did not properly prep that blank surface so maybe it's a separate issue causing the same outcome.

Sometime in the next month when I've completed all the above steps and allowed adequate drying time I'll report back what I find. Talk about delayed gratification. Thanks!

Bill