I'm still waiting for back issues that cover spiral wrapping and have read & reread the treatise on NCG(new concept guides) As I watch the mail I look & post around other boards and find that different folks have different thoughts about "NCG". SO now again I'm not sure I understand so I'm gonna try to post what I understand and hope that Tom or someone can say Yea or nay. Fuji makes a guide style that suppliers like Clemens, Summer Moon, Bingham E list as "NCG" 3 of the sizes;16,12,10 look just like the "regular" NSG style, the other 3 "NCG's" are UNSG, LSG, YSG.These same guides are also listed in Alconite. However, one could apply the concept not only with any combination of the aforementioned guide styles but could also apply it with say with VSG & LVSG's or any other style one cares to use. The guides listed as NCG would "recommended but not required. Am I correct?
Next question can the "NCG" be applied to the spiral guide application?
Next question AMTAC has a guide they list as an "N" .The verbage describes it as being an excellent "fly rod stripper" and spinning guide. Has anyone tried this guide on a conventional? Looks like it would be stronger than the UNSG style in the New Concept Line. I'm not concerned how it looks,only how it works. If its only marginally heavier but much stronger and compatable in height I don't can a bloody bloody about how it looks. The rod will be for me and my only concern is performance. Will appreciate any and all commentary. Warren

The New Guide CONCEPT and New Concept GUIDES are not the same thing. One is a system or concept and the other is an actual product. I have been using the New Guide Concept on my last 4 spinning rods but did not use any of the specialty New Concept Guides to set it up with. Likewise, using the New Concept Guides does not automatically mean you are using the New Guide Concept. You can use any guides you like if they do what needs to be to done.

I am not sure about those AMTAK N frames you speak of. Some years ago I tried something like that from Pac Bay and thought the frame design was cool. They worked fine but the finish was lousy and peeled off. I may take a look at the AMTAK guides you are talking about.

Fuji's concept guides are fashioned in such a way as to allow you to achieve better adherence to the concept system. Higher frames, lighter rings, etc. But Mick is right, you can get the new guide concept system without using the concept guides and using the concept guides does not the new guide concept make. Make sense?

Warren, the new concept is not just spacing. It is the intimate understand of how and why of line
and guide. To further understand new concept guides you need to really look at the cross section
of the guides and how and why they are so. the Y, L, UN, LN all have a different ring profile than
the older ones and VERY different than the other manufacturer. The angle of ring cut, the
thickness of the ring and ring contact point are where all the different are made. Other
manufacturer use press fit just like Fuji older LVSG, SVSG, NSG, but with this method rings have
to be thicker thus heavier all around. That make the line contact points (Side surface choke, or
bend line load) a larger contact surface. The worst case is the rings I saw that are made in Korea
which are Titanium coated. They technically have a square profile which defeat all benefit of
line friction reduction if one need to use Titanium gold nitrate coated guides. This on spinning
will cause line twist!! And uneven line load on baitcasting, especially in spiral wrap since the
line now has a higher contact surface due to the angle of line and reel!! The concept guide also
give you lighter weight, thus higher tip speed too!!.

Do not take my word for it. Get a NSG, and LNSG, same size, a 16 would be easier to see; you will
notice 5 major things. 1) On the LNSG, the ring is much thinner. 2) The angle of the side of the
ring to the center is more shallow on the LNSG, 3) the center ridge of the LNSG is much narrower
than then NSG. 4) the LNSG, is drop in glued not press fitted 5) The brace point of the LNSG is
much higher and the angle of finish is much smoother (to prevent line wrap, though not as
complete as MNSG)

Last, wrap the guide as little as possible and more performance you shall see.

Good fishing (catching) <*)))))))><{

Dorge makes some good points. While it is certainly true that you don't need the Fuji concept guides to implement the New Guide Concept System of sizing and placement, they have been designed to enhance certain aspects of the System.

Less weight and proper frame height help implement the System to the fullest extent. I have used non-concept guides to implement the system but have also taken advantage of the actual Concept guides in some cases where appropriate to further improve overall performance.

Think of the New Guide Concept the same way you might a blueprint for a building, and guides, including the Concept style, as the materials for building the structure. Choose your guides based on which ones will best do the job of what you need to do.

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