I just finished my 6th rod in the last month, all with FlexCoat CP. My problem is,I've seen a number of posts regarding the "proper" use of this stuff, and many recommend thinning and multiple coats. Not knowing any better, (only been doing this for 2months) I just shook the bottle and applied one wet coat. The next day I did the finished wrap. I got no bubbles and the color was terrific. My question is: am I just lucky and should expect to have problems down the road?

You did exactly what the article on color preserver in Rodmaker magazine said to do. Keep doing it just that way and you'll be okay.

Since moving to this method I've had no more troubles. When I used to thin it 50/50 and use 3 coats my jobs were hit and miss. Don't really know why I ever thinned it. Just had heard to do it that way.

I think you just got lucky.. I read the article in Rodmaker and from what I read they did more testing on the strength of CP.. I have did a lot of testing myself and found out there really is not a sure fire way to applying CP. I guarntee you will have a problem sooner or later with CP. It's kinda funny how the manufactures of these CPs recomend to thin the first coat .. Thanks Dave's Rods

I started using Flex Coat High Build in the late 1980s, along with Flex Coat CP. At first I had some trouble, even after two coats of CP. Somewhere along the line I figured out how wet a wet coat is. Now I use Flex Coat CP unthinned, one coat, and it works every time. I do use different size brushes for different size wraps. The bigger the brush the more CP it will hold. I use the largest brush I can, without sloping it onto the blank or putting so much on that it drips off.

Bill Doherty

The instructions with Flex Coat CP are somewhat precise, but a few words to be emphasized as they are on the bottle.

Apply SATURATING Coat to wrappings with a brush.

For Regular Thread: Apply 2 or 3 coats.

For NCP Thread: Apply 1 coat if sealer is desired.

Product may be thinned with water IF desired.

Drying time approx. 1 hr, BUT may be longer if low temperature and high humidity conditions.

Maybe one statement on the bottle that may be easily missed:
"RECAP TIGHTLY - PREVENT FREEZING"

I should think that following the above manufacturer recommendations are placed on the label for good intentions and if followed, most likely would avoid many of the pitfalls often times mentioned.

I'll say that perhaps this brand is not amongst the highest on my list of favorites, it still is a usable and decent product for general use IF the instructions are followed, and the bottle not allowed to have the contents overly exposed to air or freezing temperatures.

Flex Coat CP is an acrylic based color preserver and thread sealer, different in composition than some others and serves the purpose intended without a lot of 'unintentional' experimentation.

just my opinion.

Rich
Solyrich Custom Rods

Dave,

I also just started using CP, and bought Flexcoat CP because that was what was for sale at my local fly shop. All of my 'previous' efforts went with straight epoxy with no 'preserver'.

I did as you did (and as I'd seen explained here), ONE wet coat. I saturated the wraps, let it dry, then applied the first finish coat the next day.

Now, I like the way it came out. The wraps were very bright and almost 'glittery' (I don't know if this is the thread or the CP, remember I'd never used it before).

I don't know what might have been different if I'd used more coats of CP, but as far as I can tell, it 'worked' just fine with one coat on the last three rods I've used it on.

I'd heard or read somewhere that with CP the wraps would look almost like a solid piece of tape after finishing. That DID NOT happen with my 'one wet coat'. Still looks like a wrap, but the color stayed bright.

Anyway, so far, no problems (or they are there and I'm not seeing them...).

Maybe I'll try more coats, just to see if it makes a difference. The only reason I can see to thin the stuff is if it gets too thick to use when I get down toward the 'bottom' of the container. By that time I'll probably just chuck it and buy a new bottle. Why take a chance AFTER all the hard part is done?

Good Luck!

I quit useing flex Coat CP because of the dull finish it leaves. Take a black rod and put a coat of CP on blank let dry and then stick it straight under light, you will see some dullnes, I then switched to Guderod and I love the perfectly clear finish.. I have a spinning rod that has been fished about 5 times 2 in daylight and the rest after dark, the wraps are blue and a dull blue.. For some reason this CP just dont hold up.. This is the only thing I dislike about this CP.. All the other problems I have with all CPs is when I use it on silk thread and useing spar varnish.. Thanks Dave's Rods

If you're able to get complete penetration with the cp right out of the bottle there's no need to thin. Just make sure that you have really soaked the thread - to the point that it starts to flow out the "tunnels" on either side of the guide foot on the FIRST coat. You can then back brush the excess. Remember that cp is a thread sealer and you will get very little if any actual penetration on subsequent coats so filling the tunnel must be done on the first time around. Extra coats of cp serve to level the ridges between the spirals of thread. A true one coat finish of epoxy can be utilized with proper application of the cp.

The article in RodMaker is the most in-depth work yet done on the subject of Color Preservers. It detailed the make up of the various types and how each should be used. We also went into great detail to explain how many of the various problems associated with color preserver can be caused by improper thinning, improper thinning agents (such as tap water) poor application, etc.

Mr. Richards didn't get lucky, he just happened to do what he was supposed to do and got the results he wished for. Assuming the batches of color preserver he continues to get from Flex Coat are consistent, he should be able to continue with the same application method and get the same results.

I have used color preservers of all makes over the years. Using Briliance, Flex Coat, Color Lock, CPX, SC115 and 215, Gudebrod 811 and probably some others on thousands of rods. I have yet to experience problems with any of them. And, the only one I ever thinned for application was the Gudebrod 811. I have found some inconsistencies in viscosity in the batches they produce and have had to thin about 10% to 15% to get it where I wanted it. I have never used more than one coat of CP on any rod I have done.

I know that many people do have problems with color preserver, but over the years I find that it is usually the person doing the color preserving, rather than the product itself, that causes the problems. I know that since the article ran I have received dozens and dozens of emails and letters from people who say they no longer have problems with color preserver. And I also know that many people continue to have problems despite their best efforts to use the products properly.

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I know following the bottle instructions usually are what you want to do, and to be honest, I would rarely use more than one coat of Flex Coat CP as is stated by the label. Flooding with one coats has done the job for me as well and haven't seen any difference in the final outcome if 2 or 3 coats were applied. I wish I knew the reason why this is recommended by the manufacturer. I have never seen a need to dilute Flex Coat CP, but it is important to ensure the consistency and proper storage.
If for any other reason, some would prefer another brand such as the clearer ones already mentioned.

Some problems occur from not having full penetration through the threads, and if product is of good mix and consistency, I would guess that much of the complaint can be cured by at least doing that step to completion. In my earlier experience with C.P. that is what I usually attributed any problems with.

Rich

Thanks guys, now that I understand better I hope I don't mess up. What a GREAT site. Without it people like me would never be able to figure all this out. Trial and error works on some things,but when you're doing it on a $120 blank it gets a little pricey. Dave

Rich,

A major manufacturer of hair care products once had a contest among their sales people to see who could figure out the best and most cost effective way to sell more shampoo. The winning entry was as follows:

"Change the directions on the bottle from - Lather, Rinse, to read - Lather, Rinse, and Repeat"

I don't want to accuse the guys who make and sell CP of the same thing, so I'll just say that applying multiple applications is one way of making sure the user covers himself on any dry areas or incomplete coverage from the initial application.

If the user applies a wet and thourough first application, additional ones are not usually necessary.

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Wait till he spends 10 hours on a fancy butt wrapp and he applies one coat of CP then it turns out Splotchy.. I do aggree one Coat floaded with CP on a Nylon guide wrap will hold up to a regular finish but not up to any Spar Varnishes, and if you use Silk you will defintely have problems with just one coat of CP.. Nylon thread seems to soak up the CPs with no problems.. Trust me I work with this stuff everyday, not once a month or once every 2 months.. Thanks Dave's Rods

Acrylic based Color Preservers like Flex Coat are generally NOT recommended at all for Silk Threads. Best to use the solvent based CP for Silk threads, but they also require thorough soaking for best color retention and prevention of blotchiness.

It is very important also for any CP to completely dry before application of any type of finish.

I have heard some who often mention blotchiness, and for some odd reason associated usually with red thread??? and usually this is heard with using another brand of CP and NOT Flex Coat. puzzling.

In fairness to brand name, being all things are consistent and a good batch is obtained, it usually relates to poor product storage or usage.
WeI sell C.P. in several brands, all of which are trusted and have been used with great results for many, many years including daily use by me and many rodbuilders that I know.
I'm still looking for the best of the best. Who knows, it may yet come??

Rich
Richard's Rod & Reel

As usual, I am in the minority. I have found that a 75% Flexcoat to 25% water gives me what I like.

The main reason that I thin and use 2 coats was mentioned in a post above. IF I happen to get into a little bit of a hurry or happen to not get 100% saturation on the first coat , the second coat is my insurance coat. I have also found that I get a tad of streaking with full strength and don't with the 75/25 mixture.

David,

I've found that Al's Color Rite (Al's Premium Cane Finishing Products) works best for me on silk. This is a solvent-based formula (water wash up).
We don't sell this product and I'm not sure if any of the board sponsors carry it.

Andy Snedden

it always works for me even on silk! It gives the thread a nice sheen.

Russ Gooding of Golden witch reccomends its use.

Happy soaking "John"