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super glue and graphite,don't mix
Posted by: Tony Fredericksen (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: February 28, 2003 01:13AM

In the past I've used a drop to set up guides,no more.I had 2 rods built for different clients returned to me for inspection.Both had twisted under the wraps.The blanks were replaced by the respective makers.But the time it takes to rebuild , is hardly worth the shortcut .All I can figure is that the super glue must of reacted with the finish.Has anyone else had this problem,or used superglue with success?I used the gel.

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Re: super glue and graphite,don't mix
Posted by: Steve Purcell (---.client.attbi.com)
Date: February 28, 2003 02:11AM

I want to be able to move the guides until the finish goes on. To accomplish this, I find the smallest diameter rubber tubing (either clear or black) and cut it into tiny rubber bands about 1/16" wide. I cut a bunch at a time so I don't have to take time to do it on every rod and store them in a finish cup.

When it is time to set up guides, I roll the bands onto the rod two at a time and put them close to where the guide will be initially positioned. I then measure and place the guides for the first test of the rod under load. It is very easy to move the guides up or down the rod until the correct position is achieved and they hold the guides quite well under load. For the top three guides on a very small rod (like a Rainshadow 1143 for instance) I double the band as I put it on the rod.

The guides stay where you put them until the wrap is over the foot, then I lift them and snip off with cuticle scissors. Final adjustment to ensure best align of the guides is done just before the finish goes on.

I would be very uncomfortable afixing the guide permanently or semi-permanently to the rod until I am absolutely certain that the positioning is perfect. I find this method to be much faster and easier than masking tape.

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Re: super glue and graphite,don't mix
Posted by: Alberto Bolan (---.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar)
Date: February 28, 2003 06:56AM

I found that SuperGlue type of adhesives use a very strong solvent, and sometimes, specialy in hot weather, it DOES react with Blank finish after minutes, hours, sometimes days. I´ve tryed many brands. I still have to try one of the new "Gel" versions that allow You to correct any posicion.

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Re: super glue and graphite,don't mix
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (---.56.160.206.Dial1.Raleigh1.Level3.net)
Date: February 28, 2003 08:23AM

I don't know exactly what happened as far as breakage went, but if you managed to get those guides bound really well to the blank's surface with the super glue, then if they get undue pressure on them and shift, they tear out the blank's surface (and some fibers) in the process.

Don't use super glue or any type of cyanocrylic cement. If you want to use an adhesive, use the Flex Coat type that is much more forgiving and won't permanently bond the guide to the blank's surface. It will server the same task as your super glue does now, but without creating a dangerous situation for your blank.

..........

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Re: super glue and graphite,don't mix
Posted by: Tony Salvado (---.mudb.nyrk.nycenycp.dsl.att.net)
Date: February 28, 2003 08:50AM

Hello, Tony

I use Steve's method, but I use the small rubber bands used for dental braces. Just go to a local drugstore and buy a box of hundreds. On fine tips you will have to double wrap it. You need to get a feel for how many to use depending on guide size and blank diameter.

On 4.5-5.5 tips I use masking tape strips. Tape a 1" - 1.5" long strip on to your work bench, then using a sharp razor and a straight edge cut 1/16 " wide strips. When securing the guide fold the tag end of the tape for easy removal. Give it a shot!

Good luck
TS

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Re: super glue and graphite,don't mix
Posted by: Scott Beard (---.bct.bellsouth.net)
Date: February 28, 2003 11:04AM

Now you've got me concerned. I have used super glue, only for single foot snakes because they're so tiny! With every other type of guide, tape works fine. I've built quite a few with this method for friends, none have broken yet, but now the thought of it makes me cringe. I'm trying to develop a new clamp system, like a ultra thin clothes pin, the kind with a spring. You can place the guide on the blank & place this little clamp over it until the thread has started up the foot half way, then remove it. If I get it perfect, I'll tell you guys about it.

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Re: super glue and graphite,don't mix
Posted by: Doug Stansfield (---.SFLDMIDN.covad.net)
Date: February 28, 2003 12:03PM

Now I'm concerned too. I'm building my first rod (in a class) and last week put the tip top on using zap-a-gap (super glue). This was under instruction, i.e. - we all did it. Should I be expecting problems?

Thanks.

Doug

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Re: super glue and graphite,don't mix
Posted by: Tony Fredericksen (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: February 28, 2003 12:20PM

Doug,I'm sure you will get plenty of response to this method of tip top mounting.I only used superglue to speed the setting of my guide feet.I would never recomend using it for rod building,period.Ask your instructor why he uses this type of product and send him to this website.

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Re: super glue and graphite,don't mix
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (---.56.209.18.Dial1.Raleigh1.Level3.net)
Date: February 28, 2003 12:21PM

Super glue has no place on guides on tops. I don't think it's necessarily going to cause you a problem, but it may not hold that top over the long haul.

Tape works fine for holding single foot guides - I've done thousands upon thousands that way. You need to cut or tear thin strips, apply it to the guide foot first, and then lower the guide to the rod and press the strip to the blank.

Again, if you must use an adhesive, use the Flex Coat type.

...............

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Re: super glue and graphite,don't mix
Posted by: Tim Collins (---.ford.com)
Date: February 28, 2003 12:35PM

I'm no expert by any means but since I also fletch my own arrows for bowhunting, so I'm very familiar with the adhesive called Fletchtite cement used to adhere feathers/vanes to an arrow shaft. I have used this sucessfully to hold small guides onto my lightweight blanks. It sets up but still remains somewhat pliable.

I use rubbing alcohol or acetone to wipe down my graphite arrow shafts and feathers and they stick perferctly. And when I want to refletch them, I take a blade and scrapped them off just like removing the thread and epoxy from a rod blank. The glue doesn't "cure" for several minutes and this allows me to sight down the guides and adjust the alignment after I have them all glued on. Afterwards I take a razor blade and trim away any excess that drooled onto the blank.

I've never seen any adverse reactions to my graphite arrow shafts so I can't attest to it damaging rod blanks. However, my arrow shafts are similiar to a matte finish rod blank , no shiny finish at all so I don't know if the Fletchtite would attack a rod finish or not. I just got a Winston IBIS blank with a shiny finish so I'll try some under the grip area to see what it does and report back.

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Re: super glue and graphite,don't mix
Posted by: John A. Woods (---.tnt3.sarasota.fl.da.uu.net)
Date: February 28, 2003 04:14PM

I would like to hear more about the clamp you are making for the guides. It sounds like a good idea. you may be able to maket something like that.

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Re: super glue and graphite,don't mix
Posted by: Tony Dowson (---.ok.shawcable.net)
Date: February 28, 2003 08:28PM

Interesting discussion.I use Flex Coat Guide Adhesive to hold single foot guides in place and then use thin tape as an insurance to hold them in place.It seems to be working well.

I do use a tiny drop of super glue to hold my ,metallic trim wraps together.I have been doing them with the nail knot methos but I find they want to come undone when I try to trim them off.I put a tiny drop of super glue on the knot in the trim band and it seems to help.Once it dries I can trim the thread.

I am wondering if this is a bad thing I'm doing?

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Re: Tony D's droplet of glue.....
Posted by: Ken Driedger (---.bc.hsia.telus.net)
Date: March 02, 2003 10:52AM

I also use the tiniest drop of superglue for metallic thread trim bands. I doubt it penetrates to the blank it's that small. I used to use colour preserver as the adhesive, but had failures. Since going to Tony's format above, end of problems. For the tip top, good ole hot melt glue, industrial formula. That's the light brown stick.

I built an extrusion die where I place a glue stick in the cylinder, set the piston, set the device in the vise, get the propane torch out, heat the die, turn the vise, and out comes 1/16" glue like pasta. I then just insert a small piece in the tip, heat and apply. No mess on the rod.

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