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Roller Guide Spinning Rod 2
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Scott Throop
Registered: September 2005
Location: Camarillo CA
Posts: 170
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Heres another roller spin rod I built for AA Roller Guide for the Long Beach Fred Hall Show...
Built on a GF700H (65lb spectra rod), Batson BVDLG choke guides (#50, 30, 20), Batson Easy-Tight seat, All American Neptune 180deg. Acid Roller Guides(4 + tip), and paired with an Accurate Twin Spin 30. At the show, Jack Nilson from Accurate handed me a DVD with some AWSOME footage from Kona of a 300 lb marlin and a 150lb. yellowfin(YF unfortunately popped off at color) caught on the first roller spinner I built last year, and the Accurate TS 30. I'll try to figure out how to post the video soon. The footage realy shows the dynamics and the load distribution to the Neptune rollers...works exactly as its supposed to.
I did this one with #337 maroon under wraps, #50 cobalt guide wraps, gold holo inlays, gold metalic trim, and a 3D Tiger Wrap to match.....
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| · Date: Mon March 12, 2007 · Views: 4,452 · Filesize: 39.1kb, 120.9kb · Dimensions: 1080 x 1189 ·
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Keywords: Roller Guide Spinning Rod
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Jim Upton
Registered: March 2005
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 449
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Mon March 12, 2007 8:21pm
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I saw the rod and the video at the show . Great stuff. I'm going to have to build one so I can fish it,just as soon as I can figure out how to afford one of those reels. It was good to see you there too bad the traffic was so bad.
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Scott Throop
Registered: September 2005
Location: Camarillo CA
Posts: 170
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Mon March 12, 2007 9:07pm
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Jim, yea the traffic was horrible....3-1/2 hours to get there...and only 1hr.15min. to get home....on the same freeway! I didnt leave home until the late afternoon which didnt help. I had a rod fall out of the dryer over the night before...and it took out 3 rods below it! Spent most of the next day cleaning up the aftermath...haha! I had to re-do a diamond wrap and get a coat of finish on it before I could leave for the show.
I hear ya on the cost of those reels... Im gonna have to settle for my ghetto Baitrunner 6500 on the one I want to build for myself. Anyone know how to hotrod an original BR 6500 with the pre-set "lever drag" and squeeze 30lbs of drag out of it? LOL!
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Raymond_Adams
Registered: May 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,301
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Mon March 12, 2007 9:33pm
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Simply Awesome Scott!
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Emory Harry
Registered: April 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 119
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Mon March 12, 2007 10:25pm
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Scott,
I am not sure that I understand what the advantage is of combining the spinning and roller guides. Actually I do not understand the use of a spinning reel on a rod of that power. Can you enlighten me.
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Charlie Nguyen
Registered: April 2005
Posts: 210
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Tue March 13, 2007 12:00am
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Beautiful rod, Scott
love tiger wrapped 
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Scott Throop
Registered: September 2005
Location: Camarillo CA
Posts: 170
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Tue March 13, 2007 9:02am
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Emory,
Quote: "Actually I do not understand the use of a spinning reel on a rod of that power."
I actually built the rod to match the power of the spinning reel....the other way around. Accurate designed a spinning reel with a capacity of 500 yds of 65# spectra and a twin drag capable of around 40lbs of drag. I was commisioned to build a rod suitable for those capacities, and to handle anything that a conventional wrapped rod would encounter within the same parameters. In many cases I would reccomend roller guides for a 60lb conventional rod....why wouldnt I consider it for a 65-80lb spinner that will be used for the same big game with the same line class and drag settings? Of course the obvious castability was the first issue to adress. Why have a spinning rod that doesnt cast...seemed to me that would really be the point of a spinner to begin with. Of course the apperature of the roller guides are a bit small for this and would drastically choke the line coiling from a 3-1/2" spool as well as abrade on the edges of the roller frames as line is drastically funneled down through the small opening. So I figure a compromise using spinning ring guides to choke the line down to a reasonably un-restricted cone of flight down to the apperature size of the roller guides is the way to go. Sure, it seems like using ring guides defeats the purpose of using rollers, but with this fast action blank, and the stand-off height of the high framed ring guides, most of the load is actually distributed toward the rollers. In fact, with the rod under full load, and the pick-up roller on the reels' rotor rotated to where it is closest to the blank, the line barely touches the bottom of the #50 choke guide. The load increases gradually on each of the two remaining ring guides. The heaviest load is on the guide just behind the apex of the bend in the rod when loaded, which just happens to be the first roller guide in the sequece. From there on out, the force of the blanks' recoil is distributed among the remaining rollers and tip. With the first one I built last year, I loaded the rod in my deflection jig and used a small digital scale to see how much force it took to lift the line from contact with each guide. Although this is a somewhat crude method of measurement, it was enough to show me that the apex guide was hands down the hardest to lift from contact with the roller.
The way I see it, ring guides create a nominal amount of friction. Aside from the obvious wear on the line and guides, heat build up, harmonic chatter, etc., friction also creates added drag on the line. The higher the load on the rod, the more drag is created. Why have a high-end precision reel with an ultra smooth, powerful precision drag, only to have the effective drag fluctuate as the line travels through the guides? Sure there will be some friction on the first 3 ring guides, but if the addition of the rollers reduces the overall friction by even 50%, and have similar castability as a typical spinning rod, thats an improvement in my book. I would actually think the friction reduction is probably closer to 75% under load depending on the position of the pick-up roller on the reels' rotor when line is being pulled out.
As for castability, this rig wont be breaking any distance records by any means, but my test casts have truly exceeded my expectations. During my guide size and placement tests I managed to repeatedly fling a 3oz sinker to to the end of my street...better than 70yds. I probably could have pushed even more, but the house at the end of my culdisac has some vulnerable windows..hehe.
In a nutshell, this is a big game rod with enhanced castability as well as powerful fighting capability, probably not for everyone, but will surely fill a few niche's. Spinning reels, aka; "eggbeaters", "beginner" or "sissy" reels seem to be generally frowned upon by offshore anglers here on the West Coast, but are popular and accepted nearly everywhere else. But with the engineering and quality of some of the high-end spinners produced over the last several years, like Van Stahl, Stella, Fin-Nor and Accurate, they definitly have a place in big game offshore fishing, and can even offer some advantage over conventional gear in some instances.
Its pretty much a given that a large spinning reel will cast a light bait like an anchovy considerably farther, with less effort, than a conventional reel with a spool with the same line class and line capacity. It takes some pull to set a static revolving spool in motion. Light baits with larger conventional spools usually require a longer rod with more swing to generate enough spool momentum to achieve any distance. A spinner on the other hand can cast the same light bait more effectively with a much shorter rod, with less energy expended, and reduced chance of throwing a delicately pinned anchovy from the hook with the cast. A shorter rod with the corect action will have more lifting power, fighting power, and less fatigue than a longer rod. A spinning rig is also the most stable confuguration while fighting a large fish...the same stability that spiral wrapping a conventional is supposed to achieve...but even more-so.
The ability to distance cast a light live bait can have big advantages in some situations. Albacore fishing for example. Albacore schools will often stick around a drifting boat and readily take live anchovies dropped near the boat or lobbed out as far as a conventional reel large enough to handle them will allow. Bluefin tuna on the other hand, often run with albacore schools but will never get close to the boat, at least not within typical bait bobbing range. Many people resort to throwing heavy jigs to the outskirts of the feeding albie frenzy in an attempt to hook a bluefin. Bluefin typically arent known pouncing on jigs with reckless abandon either, but will more likeley boil on a live bait. A quality spinning reel with enough line capacity and powerful drag and a relatively short rod with enough backbone to handle a large bluefin could easily get the right bait into the zone and increase the probability of hooking and effectively landing one.
Baiting tailing marlin without running the boat too close, live baiting offshore kelp paddys, possibly even baiting a swordie..(I heard rumor at the FH show someone baited, hooked and landed one here on the west coast with a spinner), sharks from the beach or jetty...all good applications for a quality heavy spinning rig.
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mark blabaum
Registered: June 2006
Location: Southwest - Wisconsin
Posts: 1,321
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Tue March 13, 2007 9:24am
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Scott, while I'm 1500 miles from any salt water I can't appreciate or comprehend the use of a roller guide or a rod that heavy. With that said the rod is just beautiful. The transition from the grips to the blank are clean and well done, the Tiger Wrap is for lack of a better word fantastic. Great job and thanks for posting. MB
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BIlly Vivona
Registered: March 2005
Location: Staten Island, New York
Posts: 2,974
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Tue March 13, 2007 11:21am
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Scott, rather than all that, you could have just said that teh entire Orient fishes with Spinning rods for giant fish with no problems. WE can do it here too. lol. SPinning reels have come a long way from teh days of he coffee grinder.
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****** Unique products for rod builders: [ link ] click the link ******
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Scott Throop
Registered: September 2005
Location: Camarillo CA
Posts: 170
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Tue March 13, 2007 6:59pm
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HAhahaa! @ Billy!
Daaaang! I didnt realize how long I rambled on with that reply until i saw it full page just now, LOL! Didnt seem like I said that much when I typed into that little box...hahaa! Maybe I shouldnt drink so much coffee before I post.
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Emory Harry
Registered: April 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 119
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Tue March 13, 2007 10:03pm
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Scott,
Well now I think that I understand. I am not sure that I totally agree but now I understand.
Spinning reels in this part of the country are only considered for use when casting very light weights or for beginners that have trouble with casting reels.
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Brook Bowman
Registered: June 2009
Location: Dunsmuir, CA
Posts: 2
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Scott, I found this site while searching to buy a roller guide spinning rod. In your post your mentioned hearing rumors of a guy catching a Blue fin on a spinning rod. It may have been me you heard about. I was on the Excel in May of 2008 with a Fin-Nor spinner and caught several Bluefin Tuna. I have been taking a spinning real along with me for the last 4 or 5 trips as it seems there is always a school of Yellowfin or Bluefin that hang just outside of the live bait swimming range. The kite guys catch a few but that's about it. Since I started with the spinner I have caught a lot of grief, but I have consistantly caught fish when others couldn't. My photo with the spinner was on the Excel Website fishing report date of May 23, 2008--this photo is with a nice Yellowtail. The problem I have had is I break a lot of fish off due to line rub. The Fin-Nor will take a lot of drag, when I crank it down the line abrades on the standard guide and then breaks. I caught a lot of fish, but I also lost a lot due to frayed line. I only found one outfit that sells roller spinning rods and they want around $700. Any suggestions? I have a 10 day coming up this fall and would like to get a rod that is up to the task. Thanks, Brook
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